Is imran overated as bowler

[subshakerz]

If you ain't cheating you ain't trying. Imran just tried more. WAFG.

Yes. Winner mindset.

 

[subshakerz]

And if it was more than sour grapes, there wouldn't be such universal respect for Imran as a cricketer, because he would be branded as a cheat by his contemporaries who likely could still be bitter. But they're not, because outside of those heat of the moment dramas which are pretty normal in cricket, no one really can give a serious **** to a concept of him being a special cheat that stained the game. It's laughable.

Yes good point. If Imran was this cheating outlier he would have been thrown under the bus by his cricket peers. But they didn't do that and it's pretty clear because they were also regularly tampering. Hence why Hadlee called to legalise and Holding said he won't act like he never tampered with the ball. Imran to his credit refused to name names when asked to not embarass them.

Pakistan may have been "better" at it, as they had a more targeted goal, and effect that they were clearly going for in a concerted way that others may not have had the right bowling talent to exploit. But everyone was doing stuff to the ball, because there was simply not the eyes to watch and police players 100% of the time, like there is now.

I think this is what folks dont appreciate. Imran's home success was the combination of a cluster of factors coming together: hard pitches that naturally wear the ball, an ATG pacer at his peak with a action literally designed to produce more booming inswing that any other, unprepared opposing batting lineups with little to no knowledge of what reverse swing is, and the umpire and tampering which were common features of the era for all teams.

 

[h_hurricane]

I think Imran is fairly rated here as a bowler, neither under-rated nor over-rated. He is the 6th or 7th best quick bowler in history for me and there is a reasonable case for him making top 5.

On a side note, though irrelevant for this thread, he is a bit over-rated as a batsman. His output in his secondary skill isn't comparable to Sobers or Botham.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think Imran is rated pretty accurately here as a bowler. Outside CW I think he's overlooked as a top bowler because people think of him as first as a great allrounder and captain, but he was one of the greatest 5-10 bowlers to walk the earth on top of that.

I think I used to overrate his batting a little bit.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think Imran is fairly rated here as a bowler, neither under-rated nor over-rated. He is the 6th or 7th best quick bowler in history for me and there is a reasonable case for him making top 5.

On a side note, though irrelevant for this thread, he is a bit over-rated as a batsman. His output in his secondary skill isn't comparable to Sobers or Botham.

Omg this is wild given we posted at the same time

 

[subshakerz]

I think Imran is fairly rated here as a bowler, neither under-rated nor over-rated. He is the 6th or 7th best quick bowler in history for me and there is a reasonable case for him making top 5.

On a side note, though irrelevant for this thread, he is a bit over-rated as a batsman. His output in his secondary skill isn't comparable to Sobers or Botham.

Certainly comparable with Sobers.

 

[subshakerz]

Omg this is wild given we posted at the same time

Lol I thought it was the same post.

 

[Coronis]

Certainly comparable with Sobers.

 

[h_hurricane]

Omg this is wild given we posted at the same time

May be I am also a bot just like you.

 

[h_hurricane]

Certainly comparable with Sobers.

Their averages may be in the same ballpark, output isn't.

Sobers was the 6th or 7th most prolific bowler in history when he retired. I am not sure if Imran was in the top 15 prolific batsmen of his time, let alone all time when he retired.

 

[subshakerz]

Their averages may be in the same ballpark, output isn't.

Sobers was the 6th or 7th most prolific bowler in history when he retired. I am not sure if Imran was in the top 15 prolific batsmen of his time, let alone all time when he retired.

I don't think Botham was in the top 15 either perhaps of total run scorers of that era but he was still a better bat than Sobers was as a bowler. Similarly, Imran with a 30 RPI was comparable to lower order bats of the 1980s. You have to look at the role they fulfilled.

I rate Sobers ahead slightly on secondary too but more due to sheer load he took on average not cumulatively . I wouldnt put him ahead based on getting more wickets over a 20 year career though. He wasn't a lead bowler he was the batting equivalent to a 6/7 borderline bat.

 

[OverratedSanity]

He wasn't a lead bowler

During his peak period, he actually was.

 

[DrWolverine]

Botham’s batting > Sobers’ bowling

 

[The Sean]

During his peak period, he actually was.

Yep, we can debate how good or otherwise we think he was, but his workload isn't in question - he was absolutely a frontline bowler for that team.

 

[subshakerz]

During his peak period, he actually was.

Yes in his mid career. Not overall. But then Imran in his last 3-4 years was a full fledge bat too.

 

[sayon basak]

Yes in his mid career. Not overall. But then Imran in his last 3-4 years was a full fledge bat too.

His bowling at that period could be held against him ig.

 

[subshakerz]

His bowling at that period could be held against him ig.

Yes. I think it's better consider his cricket career until 1988/89. Because the last few years aren't really representative of him as either a pure bat or bowler.

Same in ODIs. He has a bowling average of 26 he ended up with and folks honestly here think he was a Kapil class bowler, yet for like 70 percent of his career he was a worldclass sub-25. He was a better bowler than his final average like Kohli as a test bat.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes. I think it's better consider his cricket career until 1988/89. Because the last few years aren't really representative of him as either a pure bat or bowler.

Same in ODIs. He has a bowling average of 26 he ended up with and folks honestly here think he was a Kapil class bowler, yet for like 70 percent of his career he was a worldclass sub-25. He was a better bowler than his final average like Kohli as a test bat.

Dude, I really don't get how you think Imran was a class ahead of Kapil as an ODI bowler.....

 

[subshakerz]

Dude, I really don't get how you think Imran was a class ahead of Kapil as an ODI bowler.....

Because he was a class ahead for the longest stretch of their careers until his final 3 years when he basically was a part timer. Whereas Kapil was never worldclass standard.

Judging Imran by a 26 average is like a judging Kohli by a 46 average.

 

[h_hurricane]

Imran barely took 70% of Kapil's wickets in ODIs at a similar average. If you further reduce the sample size to 50% of Kapil's wickets, you are going to get a period when he averaged 21-22. It is penalizing Kapil's consistency in ODIs for a much larger sample size while cherry picking Imran's stats.

I think Imran is over-rated as an ODI bowler, though not in tests.