The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Johan]

I mean...

both Barnes and O Reilly are very high workload bowlers, and then you have Miller and Lindwall who are given as pacers, Miller due to his pace and short pitched bowling being a perfect 4th bowler and he'd bowl long spells if you nag him enough, I think someone like Aubrey Faulkner is a better option as it adds a lot of batting depth and is a perfectly good fifth bowling option.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I mean...

both Barnes and O Reilly are very high workload bowlers, and then you have Miller and Lindwall who are given as pacers, Miller due to his pace and short pitched bowling being a perfect 4th bowler and he'd bowl long spells if you nag him enough, I think someone like Aubrey Faulkner is a better option as it adds a lot of batting depth and is a perfectly good fifth bowling option.

If the keeper was a bunny like Oldfield or Blackham, I would agree. But Ames can hold his own really.

 

[Coronis]

those are some ***y numbers, was excellent in 1954-55 Ashes as well if I'm not mistaken

tbf that series was notoriously low scoring but yes he did pretty well. I will note that when he took his 5’fer bowling in his final test at his home ground he was bowling spin and did most of that work cleaning the tail. Took England from 273/7 to all out 279. And himself from 2/79 to 5/85.

 

[Coronis]

Okay, so he basically was a Great and then an injury happens from which he never totally recovered. His peak is just of 29 matches though. I mean, there aren't many ATG options, but I do consider Spofforth one. And in context, I think he should make the cut.

I mean sure if you want. Not the worst rep from the 19th century you could pick. But I’m fine with Johnston personally (remember Spofforth’s peak only lasted 18 matches )

Less exciting anecdote on his injury compared to Compton’s sadly.

Johnston attributed the injury to a lack of attention to detail. His new boots had spikes that were longer than usual, and the physiotherapist had failed to strap his ankle before the match. His knee soon failed.

 

[The Sean]

And let's not forget that Johnston was a genuine all rounder who averaged 102 with the bat in an English First Class season...

 

[Coronis]

And let's not forget that Johnston was a genuine all rounder who averaged 102 with the bat in an English First Class season...

Ironically that very same English season.

 

[trundler]

An XI for the first half of test cricket's history has got to have 2 spinners. Why are we picking a 3-1 bowling attack for that era when that's not an attack teams would've picked back then and it also means leaving out a much superior spinner? That too with Miller in the XI.

 

[Coronis]

An XI for the first half of test cricket's history has got to have 2 spinners. Why are we picking a 3-1 bowling attack for that era when that's not an attack teams would've picked back then and it also means leaving out a much superior spinner? That too with Miller in the XI.

I mean, Barnes is sort of a hybrid and Johnston can bowl spin. I did heavily consider Grimmett too, though maybe I was more focused on matching the team up to the second half. You’re right, pre WWII the teams almost definitely would opt for 2 spinners. Grimmett should probably replace Johnston in that case.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Hmmmmm..... I would go:

Pre 1952:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman*
Grace
Hammond
Miller
Ames+
Rhodes
Lindwall
O'Reilly
Barnes

Subs:

Sutcliffe
Trumper
Headley
Nourse
Ranji
Faulkner
Oldfield+
Larwood
Bedser
Grimmett
Spofforth



Post 52:

Gavaskar
Barry
Viv
Tendulkar
Smith
Sobers
Gilchrist+
Imran*
Hadlee
Marshall
Murali

Subs:

Boycott
Greenidge
Kallis
Lara
Pollock
Border
Sangakkara+
Akram
Warne
Steyn
McGrath

 

[Johan]

Hmmmmm..... I would go:

Pre 1952:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman*
Grace
Hammond
Miller
Ames+
Rhodes
Lindwall
O'Reilly
Barnes

this was actually the first XI I typed out before going "nah, Aubrey batted better."

 

[Srinath P]

Hmmmmm..... I would go:

Pre 1952:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman*
Grace
Hammond
Miller
Ames+
Rhodes
Lindwall
O'Reilly
Barnes

Subs:

Sutcliffe
Trumper
Headley
Nourse
Ranji
Faulkner
Oldfield+
Larwood
Bedser
Grimmett
Spofforth



Post 52:

Gavaskar
Barry
Viv
Tendulkar
Smith
Sobers
Gilchrist+
Imran*
Hadlee
Marshall
Murali

Subs:

Boycott
Greenidge
Kallis
Lara
Pollock
Border
Sangakkara+
Akram
Warne
Steyn
McGrath

Why Imran at 8 over McGrath/Steyn? Hadlee provides you whatever is needed from a No. 8.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Why Imran at 8 over McGrath/Steyn? Hadlee provides you whatever is needed from a No. 8.

Imran provides Great reverse swing and a don't rate him as a bowler much behind that group. His batting being @37 is definitely a factor as well. Hadlee and Maco at 8 and 9 are more than perfectly fine, but don't think extra batting hurts really

 

[capt_Luffy]

this was actually the first XI I typed out before going "nah, Aubrey batted better."

I think Rhodes offering SLA instead of leggies same as O'Reilly, being a superior bowler (levels at best) and having Don and Ames in the team; makes a pretty compelling case.

 

[ataraxia]

Spofforth was a crap scattergun who everyone thought was good 'cos he could bowl fast. The Lillee of his age.

 

[Coronis]

Spofforth was a crap scattergun who everyone thought was good 'cos he could bowl fast. The Lillee of his age.

This comment led me to check. Found an error on cricinfo due to this. Cool stuff.

 

[ataraxia]

Hutton
Sutcliffe
Hobbs
Grace
Hammond
Faulkner
Ames +
Miller
Lindwall
Barnes
O'Reilly

Shrewsbury, Grimmett/Verity unlucky.

Gavaskar
Kallis
Lara
Tendulkar
Smith
Sobers
Gilchrist +
Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne

 

[The Sean]

Hutton
Sutcliffe
Hobbs
Grace
Hammond
Faulkner
Ames +
Miller
Lindwall
Barnes
O'Reilly

Shrewsbury, Grimmett/Verity unlucky.

I reckon there's another bloke fairly unlucky to miss that side too.

 

[ataraxia]

I reckon there's another bloke fairly unlucky to miss that side too.

Oh. Lol. Yeah, Nourse should probably slot in there somewhere.

 

[Coronis]

Oh. Lol. Yeah, Nourse should probably slot in there somewhere.

Swap a Saffa for a Saffa

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Is Johnston really the best bet?? He was a very good bowler, but I would rather just go with Spofforth. If someone modern then Bedser. Another spinner allrounder in Rhodes also doesn't sounds bat, although probably Don and Ames makes up for that.

Larwood imo