*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Athlai]

In another edition of “look up CI stats and make sweeping judgements” I saw a twitter thread where Fleming was in strong consideration for “worst batsman to make 7K/8K runs” or something along those lines.

Yeah he may not have been Sachin or even Ganguly in the format but averaging 32 in his time was acceptable enough, and a high percentage all of his centuries and bigger scores were made when the team really needed it. Also coped rather well with getting the captaincy of an average and somewhat dysfunctional side at the age of 23.

You've got to keep in mind that "worst" in a category that only includes people talented enough to do something fairly incredible isn't really saying much. Fleming was gun, just less gun than a few dozen others.

 

[Athlai]

I do think he might be better than the likes of Ian Bell and Atherton but even then, it's the right kind of comparison.

 

[honestbharani]

I am sure you guys would love this.

New Zealand, the kings of finding little gaps in the armour of opposition and wriggling through them to the semi-finals of major tournaments, landed on a big one in the tournament opener.

Babar has major spin demons to overcome, and oppositions know this well

India, Pakistan's next opponents in the Champions Trophy, will almost inevitably seek to expose this frailty

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Athlai]

Pre 2015 that's probably true, 2015-now we are just consistently a top 4-5 team

 

[_Ed_]

Pre 2015 that's probably true, 2015-now we are just consistently a top 4-5 team

Just not in the Caribbean last year.

 

[Moss]

I am sure you guys would love this.

Babar has major spin demons to overcome, and oppositions know this well

India, Pakistan's next opponents in the Champions Trophy, will almost inevitably seek to expose this frailty

www.espncricinfo.com

A part of me is surprised to see AFF rehashing NZ stereotypes, this is the guy who went to Uni in NZ and has generally shown a lot more local knowledge than most. Can remember when he was an independent blogger, questioning why on earth Shannan Stewart and Peter Ingram were being picked ahead of a certain Kane Williamson to face the Aussies in early 2010.

The bigger surprise: he’s actually not wrong! Post the 2016 T20 World Cup, NZ really haven’t dominated in pool play at any of the WC’s. They’ve usually got by with tripping up one of the fancied sides early on (AUS in the 2022 T20 World Cup, ENG in the 2023 ODI WC) and only beating those below in the pecking order. In both the last ODI World Cups we’ve got to the semis by being a shade better than Pakistan during group stages.

Gotta admire the consistency for sure, but you also feel with the kind of sides NZ have on paper they could be dominating much more.

 

[Athlai]

Don't think we are a particularly good T20 side, not bad but much better at the other fornats

 

[honestbharani]

Pre 2015 that's probably true, 2015-now we are just consistently a top 4-5 team

You guys dominated the 1992 WC like we did in 2023.

 

[_Ed_]

Don't think we are a particularly good T20 side, not bad but much better at the other fornats

Two semi-finals and a final in the last four World Cups is pretty good going, though.

 

[Athlai]

Two semi-finals and a final in the last four World Cups is pretty good going, though.

High luck format imo

 

[SteveNZ]

High luck format imo

In T20 it is, absolutely. Although you can make your own luck when you prepare as shithouse as we did last year.

 

[jcas0167]

A note of praise to Gary Stead and the NZ selectors. Sticking with Latham (presumably based on his past record in Pakistan) paid off big time.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

A note of praise to Gary Stead and the NZ selectors. Sticking with Latham (presumably based on his past record in Pakistan) paid off big time.

as much as I **** on Stead's overbearing loyalty to certain players who don't deserve it, I think the evidence suggests it's a better mistake to risk giving guys a bit too much rope than too little.

 

[ataraxia]

For those interested:

New Zealand All-Time XIs - A re-run

Hello folks, So we are now approaching the End and this time comes New Zealand. The ones we have already done are Australia, South Africa, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and West Indies. With the Kiwi bros, and the surge in quality players of New Zealand in the last 6 years...

www.cricketweb.net

(tests)

 

[Zinzan]

Loving the fact my long-term wish of Santner batting as low as 8 is actually possible in the SC. I've always maintained he's a decent no. 7, but excellent no. 8 at ODI level.

I don't think our current ODI batting depth can be overstated even despite the increase in ODI averages globally

1) Ravindra 43 @ 110
2) Conway 45 @ 88
3) KW 49 @ 82
4) Mitchell 49 @ 97
5) Latham 35 @ 86
6) Phillips 39 @ 101
7) Bracewell 40 @ 114
8) Santner 26 @ 91

Waiting on the bench:
Young 44 @ 88
Chapman 35 @ 105

 

[NZTailender]

With this Champions Trophy squad quite possibly being the best all-round squad we've assembled in terms of XI balance and form, how many do we think will feature at the 2027 WC? And who are alternatives?

Player	Age	2027 WC Age	Squad prediction
Will Young	32	34/35	Knowing his career, probably dropped by this point and moved on from; Heaphy or Mariu
Rachin Ravindra	25	27/28	For sure
Kane Williamson	34	37	Unless he's retired, he's there
Daryl Mitchell	33	36	Something tells me he won't be there - retired or dip in form. Dean Foxcroft if he gets back into form
Tom Latham	32	35	Short format retired, replaced by Hay or Chu
Glenn Phillips	28	30	Batting 4 or 5
Michael Bracewell	34	36	Probably the hardest to predict of the lot - depends on form, he's great balance to the side - otherwise Abbas or Clarkson
Mitch Santner	33	35	Captaincy and format swansong imo
Matt Henry	33	35	Deserves a WC win but can his body do the distance. Would like to think Shipley
Kyle Jamieson	30	32	Not sure if he deserves to be in the side atm tbh, but will probs be in the squad if fit
Will O'Rourke	23	25	Yes, his ODI form and experience will improve
Devon Conway	33	36	Dropped or retired; Heaphy or Mariu
Mark Chapman	30	33	Hunch says no; Jacobs maybe in the squad
Nathan Smith	26	29	Hopefully the first choice first change by this point
Jacob Duffy	30	33	See Will Young; Foulkes
Ben Sears	27	29	Opening the bowling w/O'Rourke
Lockie Ferguson	33	36	Injured, Retired, T20 only at this point; Fisher, or Ashok as the sole specialist spinner (if Bracewell isn't there)

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Perhaps Boyle jnr & Phillips jnr to replace Young & Conway

 

[straw man]

Sceptical about Clarkson and to a lesser extent, Foxcroft.

 

[NZTailender]

Sceptical about Clarkson and to a lesser extent, Foxcroft.

Foxcroft is a funny one because he has at times domestically looked the business and could be a real talent. And yet over the last 12 or so months his form has just disappeared. Ditto Clarkson.

 

[NZTailender]

I would say our bowling looks sound for the future, but with 31ish months until the 2027 WC you would think we would want to blood some new batting talent post CT. Wells seemed into it recently with Robinson getting a go (y tho) and Jacobs making a squad (not playing) but you also have to wonder how it is anyone would break into the side as it seems certain players are undroppable at this stage even when their form has been very questionable. Unless a whole bunch of guys who will be 35 and 36 legit somehow keep their form and decide that the 27wc is their final show.