Kapil Dev vs Courtney Walsh

[DrWolverine]

If Joe Root has a great Ashes series, will his legacy improve? If he scores 500 runs this series, his average improves to 40.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I don't like so many criterias/restrictions really. Viv's average dropped sub 50 in his last series momentarily. Had he retired back then, would you not consider him an ATG???

He might've been one of the exceptions I hinted at. Wasim for example doesn't quite average 4 wpm but he's atg no doubt. And when it comes to the cream of the crop ie atgs you have to have strict standards, otherwise every tom dick and Harry could be one. That shouldn't be imo.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I have no idea how anyone can interact with @subshakerz and @kyear2 for more than 5 minutes and come away thinking they're the least bit racist.


They're clearly just very stupid posters, not racist.

I know youre joking but I'll bite. Subz isn't remotely racist nor is kyear2. Just passionate about their favorite cricketers and cricket in general like the rest of us.

 

[BazBall21]

Not as much as Kapil, not everyone bowls in as flat conditions regularly. No peak basically means very consistent 16 years, his overall average overseas and at home against the best 2 teams he played is hella impressive, as is his Pak and Eng record not that poor. So yeah, I do think he was a better bowler than someone like Botham, Gillespie or Broad

He consistently maintained a good level, but if he was a considerably better bowler than his raw numbers, he would have had a top drawer sustained peak or better overall overseas numbers. Gillespie was definitely a higher quality bowler than Kapil imo.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

@subshakerz @kyear2 crazy that you two let Migara get away with saying Kapil Dev was a greater Batsmen of spin bowling than Sir Viv Richards ngl, absolutely insane work.

It's not just Viv, he said every WI batsman from that era. I have to believe he's on meth or something.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He consistently maintained a good level, but if he was a significantly better bowler than his raw numbers, he would have had a top drawer sustained peak or better overall overseas numbers. Gillespie was definitely a higher quality bowler than Kapil imo.

I will respectfully again disagree. I don't think a bowler with a very good peak and a horrible post peak is better than his numbers. One who bowled in flatter conditions more regularly and against more odds is one.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I will respectfully again disagree. I don't think a bowler with a very good peak and a horrible post peak is better than his numbers. One who bowled in flatter conditions more regularly and against more odds is one.

Did Dev bowl in flatter conditions more often than Jason did? I doubt it. If that's not the case, then people need to stop saying his contemporary Mcgrath generally did.

 

[Johan]

Did Dev bowl in flatter conditions more often than Jason did? I doubt it. If that's not the case, then people need to stop saying his contemporary Mcgrath generally did.

the pitches flattened out around 2001/2, from that timeframe...minus Zim/Ban...

McGrath: 253 @ 21.2
Gillespie: 167 @ 32.1

 

[The Sean]

If Joe Root has a great Ashes series, will his legacy improve? If he scores 500 runs this series, his average improves to a respectable 40.

Surely that will depend on how many times he gets out.

 

[Johan]

Surely that will depend on how many times he gets out.

if he gets out 10 times, he needs around 508 runs I think

 

[Coronis]

He might've been one of the exceptions I hinted at. Wasim for example doesn't quite average 4 wpm but he's atg no doubt. And when it comes to the cream of the crop ie atgs you have to have strict standards, otherwise every tom dick and Harry could be one. That shouldn't be imo.

Tom Richardson
Dick Hadlee
Harry Brook

Coronis and PEWS have very similar stance on Viv, so not really surprising.

My stance is modelled after Shiv’s.

I can't believe that ****ing did calmed me down

It was Ripley and Gerd right? Big

 

[Coronis]

if he gets out 10 times, he needs around 508 runs I think

I doubt Root could do that. Even Tendulkar couldn’t

 

[Johan]

I doubt Root could do that. Even Tendulkar couldn’t

gotta farm not outs then, just outbat the rest

 

[capt_Luffy]

Tom Richardson
Dick Hadlee
Harry Brook



My stance is modelled after Shiv’s.




It was Ripley and Gerd right? Big

What can I say?? Bigger the better ig....... Man Gaban is a lucky ****ing bastard

 

[BazBall21]

I will respectfully again disagree. I don't think a bowler with a very good peak and a horrible post peak is better than his numbers. One who bowled in flatter conditions more regularly and against more odds is one.

Kapil's durability was excellent and his biggest strength, but there is nothing in his resume that suggests he was much better qualitively than his raw numbers and he had clear limitations on eye test.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Kapil's durability was excellent and his biggest strength, but there is nothing in his resume that suggests he was much better qualitively than his raw numbers and he had clear limitations on eye test.

I mean, he had flatter tracks, especially at home. That automatically means he is better than his numbers. Had some excellent, even some ATG series in such tracks (83 WI). As I said, that's someone whom I consider better than numbers, not necessarily someone with an excellent peak and a huge downfall like Botham (he is better than his numbers too btw) is better than numbers.

 

[BazBall21]

I mean, he had flatter tracks, especially at home. That automatically means he is better than his numbers. As I said, that's someone whom I consider better than numbers, not necessarily someone with an excellent peak and a huge downfall like Botham.

Kapil didn't have a great away record either though. I think he fulfilled his potential with the ball.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He didn't have a great away record either though.

Near ATG in WI and Great in Australia, and again, by context decent in both Eng and especially Pakistan. NZ is just poor though

 

[capt_Luffy]

Especially his Pakistan record is much better than his average. Had 2 very good Series there, 1 poor debut in probably THE flattest road and a single bad innings.

 

[BazBall21]

Near ATG in WI and Great in Australia, and again, by context decent in both Eng and especially Pakistan. NZ is just poor though

He bowled on some flat tracks in England and Pakistan, but to say averages of 39 and 40 are decent is still on the generous side, especially relative to the quality he's being compared against in these discussions.

Pakistan was consistently flat and there was perhaps also a bit of home umpire business against him there, but he never did particularly well in England despite some seam friendly conditions in 1986 for example.