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England players and selection discussion thread

kevinw

International Debutant
Baz suggesting now that England may need three captains, one for each format. Given that Brook is an essential part of the test batting and the likely next captain I would keep him away from the ODI captaincy. A specialist captain like Vince or Billings has been suggested. I'd probably lean towards the latter. Whether Buttler plays still, he's usually vacated the gloves to another keeper, so I'd be fine with Billings at 6-7. He's a far better tactician than Buttler and at this stage, Brook. This side is so awful it needs excellent captaincy.
 

FBU

International Debutant
Disastrous Tournament Results
The ODI side has just been knocked out of the Champions Trophy after losing all three of their group games, ending in an awful, timid display against South Africa. That follows the disappointment of the 2023 World Cup, a tournament they headed into as reigning champions but resulted in emphatic failure – a seventh-place finish which included defeats to underdogs Afghanistan and ninth-place Sri Lanka, whose only other win came against bottom-of-the-table Netherlands.

T20 Setbacks and Leadership Changes
In similar disappointment, the T20 side also surrendered their crown as world champions with a bleak defeat to India in the semi-finals of last year’s World Cup – a competition in which they never looked at their best.

Mott’s Departure and McCullum’s Impact
Back-to-back failures in international tournaments brought the end of Matthew Mott’s time in charge of the limited-overs side and Test head coach Brendon McCullum subsequently took over. However, the Kiwi has so far had the opposite effect to his exciting, inspiring brand of cricket in the Test arena, with the white-ball sides coming away from their tour of India and the Champions Trophy with a record of one win and 10 defeats.

Buttler Resigns and Squad Changes Loom
The dreadful run of form has already led to captain Jos Buttler resigning from his role after Wednesday’s defeat to Afghanistan confirmed their departure from the tournament. With no obvious ready-made successor, the make-up of England’s squad for their ODI series against the West Indies at the end of May could be vastly different.

Key Player Decisions for the ODI Series
There will be significant calls for Phil Salt and Liam Livingstone to be dropped, alongside a lack of support for Jamie Overton and Jamie Smith in their current roles and a potentially serious knee injury to Mark Wood which will almost certainly see him sidelined for the series.

Balancing ODI Series with Test Commitments
With the limited-overs series taking place in between a one-off Test with Zimbabwe and the five-match series against India, pace bowlers Brydon Carse and Gus Atkinson may be rested with a further focus on the winter’s Ashes series Down Under.

Likely Squad Selections and Potential Changes
Ben Duckett and Joe Root were England’s most consistent performers across their New Year series and will be automatic selections in the side, while Harry Brook, despite his recent poor form, will be the most likely player to take over as white-ball captain. Buttler will also comfortably retain his spot in the side, with his reputation as one of, if not the best, white-ball players in England’s history.

Emerging Talent and the ODI Call-Up
Young all-rounder Jacob Bethell will almost certainly return to the side on a regular basis, but as he has also impressed on the Test stage he may be rested for the limited-overs series. Jofra Archer and Adil Rashid are comfortably the side’s best performers in their respective areas, but the former may not be included in the series with the Windies, as management figures eye a Test return for him in the summer.

A New Look for England’s ODI Squad
Thus, England’s squad for the three-match series, getting underway on 29 May, is likely to feature new incomers in a mix of roles.

Here are five players who may earn a call-up to Brendon McCullum’s ODI squad to face the West Indies at the start of the summer.

Tom Banton
Although the Somerset batter was named in England’s squad for the Champions Trophy, it was only as a replacement for the injured Jacob Bethell and he was not given an opportunity in the tournament despite top-scoring in the final ODI against India.


With pressure to drop Phil Salt, who averages 26.45 since the start of 2023 with only three half-centuries, Banton may be given the chance to stake his claim as Ben Duckett’s long-term partner at the top of the order.

The 26-year-old made his 50-over international debut in 2020 and played five games, averaging 26.80, before being dropped.

Over four years went before he was recalled to the side following Bethell’s injury and he impressed in Ahmedabad as his 38 was the highlight of England’s 142-run defeat.

He was in the process of building a stellar partnership with Joe Root and had hit two exemplary reverse sweeps for six before falling to a fine lbw decision.

If given another opportunity in his more regular position as an opener he could prove to be a more adept hitter than Salt.

A balance of aggressive shots alongside the level-headedness to nudge singles and defend the necessary balls that Salt attempted to smash out of the ground, usually leading to his wicket falling, would greatly improve England’s top-order.

Banton has improved his game against spin since first being part of the England team and has proven in domestic T20 tournaments around the world that he has the ability to dispatch world-class bowlers all around the ground.

He was the second-highest run-scorer in the recent ILT20 league, hitting 493 runs at an average of 54.77 with two hundreds and three fifties, and was fifth on the list for T20 Blast runs last season, scoring 515 runs at an average of 46.81.

The Somerset opener, who can also keep wicket, would not be the most surprising selection in the side but would show McCullum will not stick with underperforming players, in this case, Salt, forever.

Sam Hain
The man that many fans of county cricket have been acclaiming for for years.

Hain has a one-day average of 57.76 which is higher than any other batter to have played fifty or more innings in the format.

The Warwickshire batter, who was born in Hong Kong and grew up in Australia, has scored over 3,000 domestic 50-over runs and made 10 centuries and has been a player on the edge of the national side for several years.

He was given his chance on the international stage in 2023 against Ireland as part of a second-string eleven shortly before that year’s World Cup and impressed.

106 runs in two games with a high score of 89 showed that the 29-year-old has the ability to adapt with relative ease to the highest level of the game and could provide England with the necessary ability to rotate the strike, build an innings and make big scores that they have recently lacked.

Hain has been one of the most consistent performers in county cricket for many years and will surely earn another chance in the national team in the near future with England’s batting struggles recently.

He would likely slot into the number four position and along with Root would provide the basis for England to more consistently score big totals and allow the likes of Brook, Buttler and Bethell to be more aggressive without the added pressure they currently face.

Sam Curran
The all-rounder was recently dropped from the ODI side but may earn a quick recall due to the poor performances of England’s all-rounders across the winter.

Curran would provide more variation to the bowling attack, with his left-arm swing bowling and added variations.

He would also add more with the bat after Jamie Overton’s struggles at numbers seven and eight and has recently shown his batting ability in the ILT20, where he scored 387 runs at an average of 55.28.

He could even be moved up to bat at six, where he would have more time to build an innings and would not be forced to be as aggressive and explosive immediately upon his arrival at the crease.

A move into the middle-order would also play to his strengths, with Curran a strong player of spin and England’s middle-order, especially Harry Brook, having struggled against India’s spinners.

The Surrey all-rounder could bat at four or five and, alongside Joe Root, improve England’s rotation of the strike throughout the middle of an innings whilst also playing aggressive shots.

However, it appears that Brendon McCullum is not a fan of the 26-year-old, most likely due to his slower bowling speed. The New Zealander has not called him up for any Test squads since taking over the job in 2022 and dropped him from both white-ball squads in the New Year.

In Curran’s last ODI series in the West Indies at the start of the winter, he batted at number six and was England’s third-highest scorer in the series – 129 runs in three games at an average of 43.

If England want to improve their ability against spin and add more variation to their bowling lineup, then Curran should be recalled.

Dan Mousley
Another all-rounder, Mousley made his international debut in the West Indies series during the winter and impressed in both sides of the game.

He batted at number seven in the ODI series and scored 69 runs at an average of 34.50, including 57 in the final game. In the T20 series, he showed his unique ability with the ball, as his quick, darting yorkers were a surprise variation of his spin bowling.

If England choose to rest Bethell, or if he does not recover from his injury in time, then Mousley could be selected in the middle-order as a different option to Liam Livingstone, should he be dropped.

The Warwickshire all-rounder does not have much experience on the international stage but a series against the West Indies, who failed to qualify for the last World Cup and therefore the recent Champions Trophy, could give him the chance to show what he is capable of.

Pat Brown
Perhaps an unlikely selection, but Brown could earn a recall to the England side after an impressive 2024 season.

The Derbyshire bowler took 22 T20 Blast wickets in 13 games at an average of 18.18, numbers that earned him a place on the England Lions tour to Australia during the winter where he also impressed, taking seven wickets in one of the four-day matches against a Cricket Australia XI.

The 26-year-old burst onto the scene in 2018, when he took 31 wickets on Worcestershire’s way to winning the T20 Blast and was later named in England’s T20 squad to travel to New Zealand at the end of 2019.

He played four matches and took three wickets before being included in the ODI and T20 squads to face South Africa but a stress fracture in his back put a pause to his international career.

After a move to Derbyshire at the back end of 2023, Brown returned to form last season and was one of the best bowlers in the county circuit.

However, he is nowhere near a guarantee to be in the squad due to the depth of England’s bowling attack.

Below the likes of Jofra Archer, Saqib Mahmood, Jamie Overton and Brydon Carse also lie Gus Atkinson, Matthew Potts and John Turner who have all featured in ODIs in recent months.

Brown may not find an easy way into the England team, but with McCullum’s reputation for picking unlikely players, he may somehow find himself back in an England jersey after a long five-and-a-half-years.

FAQ
Q: What is the main issue facing England’s white-ball cricket teams?
A: England’s white-ball teams are currently in a significant slump, with recent poor performances leading to a series of defeats and the resignation of their ODI captain, Jos Buttler.

Q: Who are some potential replacements for the struggling players?
A: Several players could be called up to the England squad, including Tom Banton, Sam Hain, Sam Curran, Dan Mousley, and Pat Brown.


Q: What are the key dates for England’s upcoming cricket fixtures?
A: England will play a one-off Test against Zimbabwe, followed by a five-match Test series against India, and a three-match ODI series against the West Indies.

Q: Who is likely to be the next England white-ball captain?
A: Harry Brook is the most likely candidate to take over the captaincy from Jos Buttler.

Q: What is the future of England’s white-ball cricket?
A: The future of England’s white-ball cricket is uncertain, but with a new captain and potential changes to the squad, there is hope for a turnaround in fortunes.
 

Chin Music

State Vice-Captain
There's Wood no doubt out of the massively important 11 test year we have.

Well done to Key,McCullum, himself any medical professional that signed him off to play in a white ball game at all.

Mark Wood: England fast bowler to see specialist about knee injury amid surgery fears - BBC Sport
The issue for me was him playing in the white ball set up anyway. A poor record in 50 over cricket, and not likely to improve so late into his career. A silly selection strategically. Hopefully he can come back late summer, but I'm not holding out my hopes for it.
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
Please no Sam Curran in the ODI set up. I don't know how long a bloke needs to show that he's not up to it.
Funny how your reputation improves when you're not part of a shitshow. He makes more sense at 7 to me than Livingstone, and I feel he's improved as a cricketer since his last efforts.
 

Chin Music

State Vice-Captain
Funny how your reputation improves when you're not part of a shitshow. He makes more sense at 7 to me than Livingstone, and I feel he's improved as a cricketer since his last efforts.
His record as a bowler is awful though and you are basically wanting him to be a 7 who can offer useful overs, which I'm not sure he can. The idea that a reputation burgeons when you don't play is also something that applies to Dawson. Absolutely the guy should have had another go in the last few years, but he didn't exactly do well when he did play a few years ago, although you can definitely say that he likely is a better player than back then.
 

FBU

International Debutant
His record as a bowler is awful though and you are basically wanting him to be a 7 who can offer useful overs, which I'm not sure he can. The idea that a reputation burgeons when you don't play is also something that applies to Dawson. Absolutely the guy should have had another go in the last few years, but he didn't exactly do well when he did play a few years ago, although you can definitely say that he likely is a better player than back then.
Dawson
Well Sunrisers Eastern Cape loved him. Amazing fielder as well. Hope he comes back next year.
12 games 14 wickets at 16.07 econ 6.92
 
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Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
Dawson should have played far more for England the past few years for sure. A lot better player now than when he got his brief Test run. But seems the selectors aren't interested in him and given his age I'd be surprised if they went there now. He's doing well on the T20 circuit now and deserves it.

As for the ODI team, Livingstone has been so disappointing. I really thought a few years back he was gonna come good for us (heck, go back further and he seemed like a Test prospect). Seems he really should be sent back to the T20 stuff only now. That means we have to get at least 10 overs from somewhere in our top 7. Overton I don't think should bat that high, Bethell's new and his bowling at least probably isn't there yet. Maybe Rehan will get a run, but not sure he's ready and the selectors seem sure he's not since he didn't even get a game in the dead rubber. Curran might not be a world beater in this format but he might be the best allrounder we've got right now. Offers something different with the ball (even if you might not want to give him a full 10 overs) and would give more ballast at 7 than Livingstone has. What other options are there?
 

mackembhoy

International Regular
Dawson should have been picked instead of Moeen for the Ashes. That was definitely an error

But I don't see how he would have made any difference in white ball. In 2022 with the ball he averaged 94 from 3 ODI's and 90 from 6 T20I's.

As for Curran guy only plays T20 cricket now and he bats 4. So not really sure how he fits into the ODI side or even the T20I side.

As if he isn't doing the job domestically how's he supposed to do it internationally.

They went for square peg in a square hole with Overton as he does the finisher job in domestic T20 better than any other English players.

But just shows you the step up can be too much for some players to replicate form. I don't see Curran being any different.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!


This article is just a lot of number crunching to tell things that most of us here already know. But I thought this piece was interesting.

Crapinfo article said:
It also hampered England because of the cycle of ICC events. When Morgan was captain, both the 2017 Champions Trophy and the 2019 World Cup took place in England. Morgan's team played only 15.30% of their games in Asia, and were thus able to hide the second or third-choice spinners. In the Buttler era, both ICC ODI events happened in Asia - the 2023 World Cup in India and the ongoing Champions Trophy in Pakistan - and England ended up playing 38.30% of their fixtures in Asia. Hence, Buttler's secondary spinners were exposed a lot more when they needed someone more penetrative.

That is a pretty valid point. As much as I think Morgan is eons above Buttler as a captain, you do have to admit playing all key tournaments at home was a massive advantage for Morgs and his team.
 

Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
if he isn't doing the job domestically how's he supposed to do it internationally.
The problem is: nobody does the job domestically because noone close to playing 50 over cricket for England actually plays 50 over cricket.

So either the ODI side gets their allrounders from the Test side (worked with Stokes) or we back a T20 player. I guess they could be trying to do the former with Bethell after he did well in Tests, but remains to be seen how well he can do in ODIs. I'm sure he'll get a chance - whether that's at 7 as our allrounder or if they Ravindra him up to the order to #3, who knows. If we pick a T20 player then I think someone batting #4 position in the shorter format is a better fit for our #7 position in ODIs than someone batting #7 in T20s - with our current level of batting, our 50 over #7 needs to be able to bat for a decent length of time, not just slog for 10 balls.

That is a pretty valid point. As much as I think Morgan is eons above Buttler as a captain, you do have to admit playing all key tournaments at home was a massive advantage for Morgs and his team.
Yeah Morgan had the easier assignment, but he also prepared for it way better. (As it turned out, the 2019 wickets ended up being a lot less batting friendly than the ones he'd drilled his team for - but oddly less spin friendly too, as they ended up dropping Moeen mid-WC for a 5th pacer.)
 

mackembhoy

International Regular
The problem is: nobody does the job domestically because noone close to playing 50 over cricket for England actually plays 50 over cricket.
I get that just when the white ball Windies squad was announced people were surprised at Curran over Overton.

It was then brought up when the white ball squad for India and CT was announced after Overton didn't do particularly well.

Even though if attention is paid to any domestic cricket. Curran bats 4/5 in T20 and Overton had been batting 6-8 as a specialist bat for ages and only in recent months got back to bowling again.

They went for a square peg in Overton for 7/8 instead of Curran who was a round peg. Even though he'd occupied the role before he'd failed miserably batting in T20I at that position.

The England setup have tried to copy and paste the T20I side and ODI side with the exception of Root. Hence why Overton picked in both sides.

His selection hasn't worked but I got the logic.

I don't think Curran fits what they want i.e a finisher with the bat who can bowl.

He's more suited to batting with time rather than slap dash at the end. His 95* against India he came in a 163/6 with 25 overs left to bat.

So he'll not get back in unless he makes himself invaluable as one of England's best 6 batsman. Basically he has to be Stokes replacement in the side.
 

Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
I don't think Curran fits what they want i.e a finisher with the bat who can bowl.

He's more suited to batting with time rather than slap dash at the end. His 95* against India he came in a 163/6 with 25 overs left to bat.
Agree with all this. I just think "they" are madmen who want completely the wrong thing. They still think this is 8 years ago and we're scoring 400 on highways every game, in which case yeah, you want a #7 to come in and slog from the off.

We're in 2025 and we get bowled out almost every single ODI we play. Curran's suitability to batting time is precisely *why* I think he is a good fit our current ODI side at 7.

I'm more sympathetic than most to the Overton selection - like you I see what they were going for. I think he'd make a good #8 in ODIs. His bowling isn't as good as what we'd like for that spot but hey, the likely alternatives we have aren't obviously better, so I wouldn't mind him getting more opportunities despite him taking a lot of flak from fans this tournament.

So he'll not get back in unless he makes himself invaluable as one of England's best 6 batsman. Basically he has to be Stokes replacement in the side.
I'm not sure I agree with this bit though. Curran can bowl, so in theory he should only need to bat better than Livingstone to make the side and currently that's a low bar.
 

mackembhoy

International Regular
Agree with all this. I just think "they" are madmen who want completely the wrong thing. They still think this is 8 years ago and we're scoring 400 on highways every game, in which case yeah, you want a #7 to come in and slog from the off.

We're in 2025 and we get bowled out almost every single ODI we play. Curran's suitability to batting time is precisely *why* I think he is a good fit our current ODI side at 7.

I'm more sympathetic than most to the Overton selection - like you I see what they were going for. I think he'd make a good #8 in ODIs. His bowling isn't as good as what we'd like for that spot but hey, the likely alternatives we have aren't obviously better, so I wouldn't mind him getting more opportunities despite him taking a lot of flak from fans this tournament.


I'm not sure I agree with this bit though. Curran can bowl, so in theory he should only need to bat better than Livingstone to make the side and currently that's a low bar.
Yes your first point about us still thinking it is 2019 is a good one. But I'd say the top 6 just need to use their brains more and we'd not be in the needing a number 7 to do a rebuild job every game.

Curran as you say would definitely be better in the guise of a rebuild the innings batsman at 7. But then that's why I think he needs to try and make himself a 4/5(whether that is possible is another story but I think it's his best chance of getting picked again). As having a frontline batsman in the top 5, who is capable of 10 decent overs on his day aka Stokes is worth their weight in gold.

Livingstone is a better bat than Curran. He just suffers from the same issue David Willey had that his muscles are bigger than his brains.

If Livingstone was a better bowler I'd allow his lack of brains a bit more leeway.
 

Hungry Llama

U19 Cricketer
At his age, if Wood does have a serious problem and needs surgery that might be the end for him. He should have stayed off the field once he got a prob in the afghan match. the overs he bowled after he came back on were quite shambolic and very expensive.
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
Yes your first point about us still thinking it is 2019 is a good one. But I'd say the top 6 just need to use their brains more and we'd not be in the needing a number 7 to do a rebuild job every game.

Curran as you say would definitely be better in the guise of a rebuild the innings batsman at 7. But then that's why I think he needs to try and make himself a 4/5(whether that is possible is another story but I think it's his best chance of getting picked again). As having a frontline batsman in the top 5, who is capable of 10 decent overs on his day aka Stokes is worth their weight in gold.

Livingstone is a better bat than Curran. He just suffers from the same issue David Willey had that his muscles are bigger than his brains.

If Livingstone was a better bowler I'd allow his lack of brains a bit more leeway.
I think that's a key point, and shows why Salt has to go, he's incapable of showing any patience and hanging around when it's a bit tougher. The middle order may find it easier if they arrive at the crease at the right time (which is what happened so often in the Morgan era). Roy and Bairstow would often accelerate after 10 overs when they'd got in and knew the pitch, Salt just doesn't have the awareness to do that.

I'm also not convinced Livingstone is a better bat than Curran now either. Having a left hander would be useful too as at the moment it's literally only Duckett in the top 7.
 

kevinw

International Debutant
Two of England's top seven need to bowl a minimum of ten overs per innings between them. If Curran is at seven then you need some reliable bowling elsewhere. Not sure about Bethell or even Brook as three format players tbh.

I don't mind the idea of Billings and Curran at 6-7 with five solid batters, one of whom must be able to bowl.
 

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