Peak Bumrah vs Peak Steyn

[Bolo.]

Just checked.

Sobers was ahead of his peers by a decent margin

That is a massive understatement.

 

[Randomfan]

True

Any other cricketers who stood out for 10 years?

McGrath from 1997-2006 ?

 

[subshakerz]

What time period exactly is prime Steyn?

2007 to 2015.

 

[subshakerz]

McGrath from 1997-2006 ?

1995 to 2006/7

 

[subshakerz]

Shoaib and Bond are 8 years older and express. They were never going to be peaking at the same time. Harris is also a few years older, and just wasn't making the team until way after Steyn.

Maybe Shoaib but Bond was still looking fairly worldclass until 2009/2010. Harris would be there most of Steyns prime if not injuries.

It's more that Steyn would not have stood out so much if he was born at a similar time to good bowlers. And that the bowlers from his era wouldn't have looked so bad if they had not been born in an era of good bats and easy pitches.

Which worldclass bowlers ended up looking bad?

 

[Coronis]

It's not random cut off. It's based on how teams are performing over all home and away taken together.

Based on your comment about 2020s surely having more good teams than 5 means you consider Pak/SL/WI/BD as good test teams. Most fans will disagree with that. As I said, you are free to consider them good test teams and have your detailed analysis about who did what in Pak/SL/WI/BD.

Like @Athlai said this makes no sense.

 

[Randomfan]

Like @Athlai said this makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense to see if you can do well against top teams when looking at tier 1 discussions. In all eras, players are rated higher for doing well against better teams.

It does not mean that all performaces against lower or minnows are useless. There have been many great performances against lower/minnows. But on scale, they go lower. Out of 8 non-minnows team if a player can't show quality against top 4-5 teams then they surely don't belong in tier 1 discussion.

 

[Coronis]

It makes perfect sense to see if you can do well against top teams when looking at tier 1 discussions. In all eras, players are rated higher for doing well against better teams.

It does not mean that all performaces against lower or minnows are useless. There have been many great performances against lower/minnows. But on scale, they go lower. Out of 8 non-minnows team if a player can't show quality against top 4-5 teams then they surely don't belong in tier 1 discussion.

No the point is you’re saying oh only performances away in these countries matter. Even when some countries are as strong or even stronger bowling in home conditions they just get ignored.

 

[Randomfan]

1995 to 2006/7

I was trying to keep 10 years further away from 90s to find 10 years where McGrath was an outlier.

95-01 Donald had similar over all and away avg. I will still take McGrath in that period, but trying to find an outlier situation and suggested last 10 years of his career. I think he was simply outlier situation starting from 00s till retirements. Not sure if anyone else was producing those outputs in the same range even with far less games.

 

[Randomfan]

No the point is you’re saying oh only performances away in these countries matter.

How did you take away that message?

I don't even go around comparing performance against top teams away and over all for all players. But when players have comparable career stats then it makes perfect sense to see if player stats are high quality against top teams to see relative standings.

Ambrose, Wasim, Donald etc all had great stats. Seeing what they did against top teams away and over all was in that context.

 

[sayon basak]

I don't even go around comparing performance against top teams away and over all for all players.

Dude the only thing you post is "Player X vs Top 5 countries with the highest W/L ratio"

 

[Randomfan]

Dude the only thing you post is "Player X vs Top 5 countries with the highest W/L ratio"

So you want to to me to write pararaphs without citing performance against top teams in any periods when trying to separate players with great records? You will notice that all those posts are when players have fantastic records in given period and it's to differentiate them. Out of 8 test nations, it's pefectly fine to look at how you do against better teams in any period for top players.

I have started only two threads which took lots of time to find peak for pacers away and over all. I have not created any more threads and only commenting on comparison for top players, mostly pacers, with great records in given periods. Off course lots of comments will be about performance against top teams in given period for those comaprisons threads. How else you are going to compare?

Is it showing any of you favourite players negatively then apologies. If it's the case of you finding it very annoying and prefer to mainly see long paragraphs without it then I suggest you put me in ignore list where you don't have to see my posts. I don't know if ignore list exists because I have never used it. I don't even comment on all comparisons, mostly pacers. Tone by you and one other poster, who used lots of colorful language in multiple posts, suggests that it was a huge annoyance for at least two fellow posters. I will try to cite this logic less frequently if it helps.

 

[Bolo.]

Maybe Shoaib but Bond was still looking fairly worldclass until 2009/2010. Harris would be there most of Steyns prime if not injuries.


Which worldclass bowlers ended up looking bad?

Arguing about what worse bowlers might have done is pretty pointless. They still would have been worse.

I'm specifically saying other bowlers were weak. They just wouldn't have looked as weak in another era.

 

[Bolo.]

I was trying to keep 10 years further away from 90s to find 10 years where McGrath was an outlier.

95-01 Donald had similar over all and away avg. I will still take McGrath in that period, but trying to find an outlier situation and suggested last 10 years of his career. I think he was simply outlier situation starting from 00s till retirements. Not sure if anyone else was producing those outputs in the same range even with far less games.

If you want to include spinners, Murali had the GOAT bowling peak for bowlers of any type from 2000.

Specifically for quicks, Mcgrath was a huge outlier from about 2001/2002.

 

[DrWolverine]

Specifically for quicks, Mcgrath was a huge outlier from about 2001/2002.

Why?

Is it because the other exceptional bowlers like Akhtar or Bond were injury prone?

Is it because Curtly Ambrose, Allan Donald and Wasim Akram retired in 2000-2001?

Is it because he was exceptional and thus was able to perform when no one else couldn’t?

 

[Bolo.]

Why?

Is it because the other exceptional bowlers like Akhtar or Bond were injury prone?

Is it because Curtly Ambrose, Allan Donald and Wasim Akram retired in 2000-2001?

Is it because he was exceptional and thus was able to perform when no one else couldn’t?

Yes.

Exceptional bowler made to look even more exceptional than he was by the weakness of the era bowling. But also more exceptional than his own record suggests due to how hard bowling was. Same as Steyn. Early 2000s to mid 2010s is the same era.