ODI Batting Poll - Discussions

[Cricket Bliss]

Sangakkara in 2015 world cup and Dravid in 1999 world cup are reminders of how ordinary players can randomly have great World cups.

no ordinary player will become the second leading run scorer in any format and play 400 + ODI
Sangakkara was also the third leading run scorer in 2011 World Cup and averaged 93.. so it is not random.... Dravid also played 340 ODI and scored 10000 runs(5th to do so).... no ordinary player will get that level of success... both came from a team which are renowned for their ODI batsmenship and achieved such success

 

[OverratedSanity]

Sangakkara in 2015 world cup and Dravid in 1999 world cup are reminders of how ordinary players can randomly have great World cups.

Tbf they both had great WC records overall, not just that one. Sanga in 2011 and Dravid in 03. Don't consider either particularly great players in ODIs but they lifted well for the big tournaments.

 

[MasterBlaster24]

de Kock also has his stats better than Ponting despite playing the difficult home conditions and opening... but this man ended his career at the age of 31....that is too young... Sangakkara peak began only after that age...guy was successful enough to play 400 ODI and 14000 runs

QDK was a very good odi batter from an early age, however, in contrast to Sanga. Therefore, he doesn't need to wait till age 31 to reach his peak. Given the era he played in, Sanga's strike rate was extremely low. During the first decade of his career, Sanga was a subpar odi batter, averaging 36 runs at a strike rate of 74 during a rather flat era. It's possible that you will score that many runs if you play that many odi matches. Although Sanga wasn't a particularly outstanding odi batter, he was a good one.

 

[Thala_0710]

What about David Miller, no mention of him yet? How much difference in level is there between Miller, Buttler, Yuvi and Inzi?

 

[capt_Luffy]

What about David Miller, no mention of him yet? How much difference in level is there between Miller, Buttler, Yuvi and Inzi?

I would throw in Maxwell too. Very Good average with the literal highest SR among any relevant player, and a good World Cup record with arguably the Best innings Ever.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

QDK was a very good odi batter from an early age, however, in contrast to Sanga. Therefore, he doesn't need to wait till age 31 to reach his peak. Given the era he played in, Sanga's strike rate was extremely low. During the first decade of his career, Sanga was a subpar odi batter, averaging 36 runs at a strike rate of 74 during a rather flat era. It's possible that you will score that many runs if you play that many odi matches. Although Sanga wasn't a particularly outstanding odi batter, he was a good one.

He didn't had to wait till the agreed, but he ended his career at just 31. Retiring at 31 is way too early... his stats could have gone the oher way around and there is no surety.. Sangakkara on the other hand played 404 ODI..hailing from a team which is renouned for its ODI batting with the likes of Jayasuriya, Tharanga, Dilshan, Jayawardene, de Silva and reached second only to Tendulkar...gotta respect his longevity.

If Kohli reitred at the age of 31 in 2019 from Tests his stats would look like 7202 runs @ 54.98 , 27 100s and 22 50s....ATG stats...right?
and it went extremely other way around.

Sangakkara's accomplishments are so high, that just by going mere average and strike rate cannot beat it...
Also going by World Cups
Sangakkara - 1532 runs @ 56.74, SR 86.55 (Better stats than Ponting)
de Kock - 1044 runs @ 41.76, SR 96.57
I rate Sangakkara an excellent batsmen in ODI, not ATG though...a spot between 25-30 though.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

What about David Miller, no mention of him yet? How much difference in level is there between Miller, Buttler, Yuvi and Inzi?

Inzamam averages 39 and has a Strike Rate of just 74... looks mediocre... his longevity is great
His overall WC record is extremely bad 717 runs @ 23.9 , Strike Rate of 74.6

 

[Line and Length]

@Cricket Bliss - If Jayasuriya made our poll at # 18, then Sangakarra (whose stats our superior) definitely should be in our list. Having said that, I believe that Jayasuriya is overrated in our poll (as are others)

 

[Sunil1z]

Shane Watson

 

[Line and Length]

The latest round, yet again, suggests longevity is a bigger factor than statistical performance. We had two players (Chris Gayle and Yuvraj Singh) inducted - both with over 300 games to their name. They finish ahead of Eion Morgan (248 games) and Lance Klusener (171) who both have superior batting averages and much better strike rates. I must point out that this isn't a case of comparing players from different eras as three played primarily in this century with Klusener ('96 - '04) having a marginally earlier career.
As we are approaching the conclusion of our poll, I hope some sort of justice can be done.
Having said that, I must acknowledge that others gaining scattered votes yet having statistical credentials could also be regarded as hard done by.

 

[Line and Length]

A new round and longevity has gone out the window with one nominee getting plenty of mentions with only 41 games to his name and a SR under 70. To each his own.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

A new round and longevity has gone out the window with one nominee getting plenty of mentions with only 41 games to his name and a SR under 70. To each his own.

He averages equivalent to Richards and a good strike rate...excellent World Cup Record... the only limitation one could argue is he played less matches.. yes..that was why he was delayed so long... had he had the same stats for 150 ODI during his era a top 10-15 spot is confirm...
Well going by longevity he played his last ODI at 36... I guess that is fine

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Is there any reason why Tendulkar is rated ahead of de Villiers apart from longevity? even after era adjustment Tendulkar average or Strike Rate wont get past de Villiers.

 

[AndrewB]

He averages equivalent to Richards

Worth noting that if you ignore Turner's 171* against East Africa, his average drops to 42; and this splits into averaging 99 against India/Sri Lanka (all matches in England/NZ; all those against India in the 70s when their ODI record was poor), 32 against England, high 20s against Aus/PK/WI.

Similarly, in World Cups his average was 238 against teams who went out in the group stages; 18 against teams who reached the semis/final.

Contrast with Zaheer Abbas, who also had an average of 47, achieved by averaging 40+ against everyone (except Canada: 1 innings of 36).

 

[Line and Length]

There has been some interesting and informative posts when discussing our Poll results - particularly with regard to who should be in and who might be overrated. Bearing that in mind, it is appropriate to post our final list - simply for ease of reference.

	ODI BATTING POLL
	*current player	Matches	Runs	Ave.	100s	50s	S.R.
1	V.Richards	187	6721	47.00	11	45	90.20
2	S.Tendulkar	463	18426	44.83	49	96	86.24
3	*V.Kohli	295	13906	58.18	50	72	93.54
4	A.B.de Villiers	228	9577	53.50	25	53	101.10
5	M.Bevan	232	6912	53.58	6	46	74.16
6	M.S.Dhoni	350	10773	50.58	10	73	87.56
7	R.Ponting	375	13704	42.04	30	82	80.39
8	Zaheer Abbas	62	2572	47.13	7	13	84.08
9	*R. Sharma	265	10866	49.17	31	57	92.44
10	D.Jones	164	6068	44.62	7	46	72.57
11	B.Lara	299	10405	40.49	19	63	79.51
12	A.Gilchrist	287	9619	35.89	16	55	96.95
13	G.Greenidge	128	5134	45.04	11	31	64.92
14	G.Chappell	74	2331	40.19	3	14	74.88
15	*Babar Azam	123	5957	56.73	19	34	88.23
16	D.Warner	161	6932	45.31	22	33	97.26
17	H.Amla	181	8113	49.47	27	39	88.40
18	S.Jayasuriya	445	13430	32.36	28	68	91.20
19	M.Hussey	185	5442	48.16	3	39	87.17
20	Saeed Anwar	247	8824	39.22	20	43	80.67
21	Javed Miandad	233	7381	41.70	8	50	67.01
22	M.Waugh	244	8500	39.35	18	50	76.90
23	R.Taylor	236	8607	47.55	21	51	83.22
24	*J.Buttler	183	5108	39.60	11	27	116.33
25	S.Ganguly	311	11363	41.02	22	72	73.71
26	A.deSilva	308	9284	34.90	11	64	81.13
27	A.Symonds	198	5088	39.75	6	30	92.44
28	*K.Williamson	167	7001	49.65	14	46	81.69
28	C.Lloyd	87	1977	39.54	1	11	81.22
30	D.Haynes	238	8648	41.38	17	57	63.09
31	Inzamam ul Haq	378	11739	39.53	10	83	74.24
32	*Q.de Kock	155	6770	45.74	21	30	96.65
33	*J.Root	173	6610	47.55	16	40	86.76
34	K.Sangakarra	404	14234	41.99	25	93	78.86
35	Yuvraj Singh	304	8701	36.56	14	52	87.69
36	C.Gayle	301	10480	37.83	25	54	87.20
37	T.Dilshan	330	10290	39.27	22	47	86.22
38	S.Watson	190	5757	40.54	9	33	90.45
39	*S.Dhawan	167	6793	44.11	17	39	91.35
40	G.Turner	41	1598	47.00	3	9	68.06

When suggesting which players might be overrated, one can't look at Strike Rates due to the how the style of the game has changed over the years. Averages are a better indication (though far from perfect) so, from that aspect, I'll name the players who, IMO, are overrated in this poll.
The obvious first name that crops up is Adam Gilchrist. His average (35.89) sits in a sea of averages in the 40s and 50s and stands out like a sore thumb. Similarly, Sanath Jayasuriya (32.36) looks out of place. Both have solid, if not spectacular SRs . Others whose batting averages look inadequate are Aravinda de Silva, Chris Gayle and Yuvray Singh though their lower placings on the list make them less obvious than the previous two named.

Who then could be included yet missed out? Without mentioned two whose cases I have pushed earlier in this thread, I present the credentials of the players who received votes, yet missed out, over the last few rounds of voting. Which of these, if any, should have made our Top Forty? (the list is in order of games played)

	Matches	Runs	Ave.	100s	50s	S.R.
V.Sehwag	251	8273	35.06	15	38	104.33
E.Morgan	248	7701	39.29	14	47	91.17
D.Miller	175	4490	41.57	6	24	102.98
L.Klusener	171	3576	41.10	2	19	89.92
M.Hayden	161	6133	43.81	10	36	78.96
M.Crowe	143	4704	38.56	4	34	72.63
F.du Plessis	143	5507	47.47	12	35	88.61
A.Lamb	122	4010	39.31	4	36	75.69
J.Bairstow	107	3868	42.98	11	17	102.93
T.Head	69	2645	44.08	6	16	104.05
S.Gill	50	2586	60.16	1	7	101.93

In conclusion, without wishing to suggest there are any voting prejudices based on race, I find it an interesting exercise to look at the countries these 40 players represented. The breakdown of representation is as follows:
10 - Australia; 7 - India; 6 - West Indies; 5 - Pakistan; 4 - Sri Lanka; 3 - South Africa and New Zealand; 2 - England.

I look forward to comments on our final Forty and issues I might have raised above.