sayon basak
International Captain
Tbh I agree with you. I rate McGrath as the slightly better bowler overall, But Pollock's batting makes it ultra close.
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ODI : Glen McGrath vs Shaun Pollock
- Thread starter DrWolverine
- Start date
If you can stick to one point then it's easier to argue that pecific point. You were saying that Pollock does not even have one MOM in WC and that's why he should be rated low. I was simply pointing out that getting MOM on WC is non-issue by citing Bevan. I wasn't citing Bevan to show that Pollock has great WC record.
Rating Pollock lower for lack of great WC is fair point. All of us know that otherwise this thread would have been one sided.
I am perfectly fine with anyone picking McGrath here as well. I don't think Pollock is that much ahead even for average team. Also, trying to compare batting+bowling to bowling is very subjective.
I often see fans not rating low ER much, but I think it's very important in limited overs, that's why I was trying to highlight that in this thread. In test, it won't play that much a part because you got to pick 20 wickets to win. Imagine Garner, ambrose, Pollock and Bumrah bowling for the same team in limited overs. It will be nightmare for opposition. Despite not getting bowled out, opposition will simply lose games after games due to not able to put a decent total or chase a decent total. Fans may say that some other bowlers can win it upfront by picking lots of wickets, but in reality that happens rarely. On average bowlers don't pick even 2 wickets per game in limited overs. Even the better ones.
Think of it this way, Opposition will have easier time to outscore( that's how you win limited overs) other teams versus,
McGrath/Starc/Garner/Wasim
or
Garner/Ambrose/Pollock/Bumrah
I do rate first set higher myself, but I am not sure that first set will win you more games on average in limited overs. I feel ER gets under rated in limited overs. Both will give equally stiff competition in my opinion and second set it relying more on very hard to hit balls on average.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
My original point was poor general performance of Pollock in WCs. MOM is more of an add on.
DrWolverine
International Debutant
If you have Pollock as an all rounder and then have Garner/Ambrose/Bumrah/Murali as the four bowlers, that is perhaps the most economical lineup ever. The most important aspect of a bowler in one day cricket is not to get wickets but restrict opposition to less runs.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Terrible 8-11 though. Include Hadlee (3.3 e/r) at the expense of one of G/A/B and it not only strengthens the tail a lot, but also gives more confidence to the top & middle order to be aggressive.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
In our ATG ODI XI, we had Garner, Pollock, Wasim, McGrath.
But I disagree that getting wickets is somehow less important than saving runs. Plenty of cases where bowlers are played out and the rest are smashed.
DrWolverine
International Debutant
Sachin
Opener
Viv
Virat
ABD
Klusener
Pollock
Akram
McGrath
Garner
Murali
It changes from time to time but this is my ATG 11
Opener
Viv
Virat
ABD
Klusener
Pollock
Akram
McGrath
Garner
Murali
It changes from time to time but this is my ATG 11
DrWolverine
International Debutant
If I am picking Gilly as an opener, Lance is the finisher.
If I am picking Rohit Sharma or Sanath Jayasuriya as opener, MS Dhoni is the finisher.
If I am picking Rohit Sharma or Sanath Jayasuriya as opener, MS Dhoni is the finisher.
capt_Luffy
International Coach
No way in hell is Klusener batting at 6, especially with Pollock at 7, in the ATG team. Dude batted at 8 behind Pollock for the majority of his career.
sayon basak
International Captain
Feel like MSD is an easy inclusion in an ODI AT XI. Definitely was a better ODI cricketer than Gilly.
capt_Luffy
International Coach
1+ tier atleast as Batsman (2 personally, think 12 is extremely flattering)
Arguably better keeper (more suited for format)
GoAT captain
sayon basak
International Captain
@capt_Luffy btw aren't you gonna make the ATG XI's soon?
sayon basak
International Captain
Hmm even if Gilly is a better keeper, it's definitely close. Not close overall imo. Dhoni might be a top 5/6 ODI cricketer of all time.
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Soon is still a quite distance away. By my calculations, in around 5 months time we can start the ODI XIs
sayon basak
International Captain
DrWolverine
International Debutant
sayon basak
International Captain
Okay but really think the gap between Jaya and Gilly is smaller than Dhoni and Klusener. Bevan might be overall a better option than Klusener.
Sachin Tendulkar
Sanath Jayasuriya
Viv Richards
Virat Kohli
AB De Villiers
MS Dhoni
Kapil Dev
Shaun Pollock
Wasim Akram/Glenn McGrath
Joel Garner
Muttiah Muralitharan
Looks Great.