thundaboult
International Debutant
Never been any good at odis. Not needed even when fully fit. Cannot handle a 10 over workload through one day. Best to try someone else instead.
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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread
- Thread starter NZTailender
- Start date
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
OK since I have clearly too much time on my hands tonight, I did a bit of a deep dive into the Ford Trophy form of all our wicket keepers for the last 3 seasons. Those who kept in 1 innings of a season (Finn Allen, Matt Boyle, C00per, Foxcroft) have been excluded, as has Cole Briggs who hasn't kept in Ford Trophy since 2022/23 season.
Observations:
| Player | 2022/23 matches | Runs/Ave | Dis/Inns | 2023/24 | Runs/Ave | Dis/Inns | 2024/25* | Runs/Ave | Dis/Inns |
| D Cleaver | 7 | 107 @ 17.83 | 1.666 | 9 | 152 @ 19.25 | 2.111 | 10 | 298 @ 33.11 | 1.6 |
| CR McLachlan | 7 | 65 @ 10.83 | 1.428 | 9 | 167 @ 18.55 | 0.888 | 2 | 28 @ 14 | 1.5 |
| T Seifert | 3 | 110 @ 36.66 | 2.333 | 8 | 199 @ 28.42 | 1.285 | 9 | 349 @ 43.62 | 1.777 |
| M Hay | 6 | 82 @ 13.66 | 1.2 | 10 | 257 @ 25.70 | 1.3 | 5 | 118 @ 23.60 | 1 |
| MW Chu | 7 | 191 @ 31.83 | 0.857 | 10 | 97 @ 16.16 | 1.444 | 11 | 188 @ 26.85 | 1.8 |
| CD Fletcher | 7 | 256 @ 51.20 | 0.833 | 12 | 274 @ 45.66 | 1 | 6 | 116 @ 23.20 | 1.333 |
| BJ Pomare | 3 | 68 @ 22.66 | 0.666 | 1 | 0 @ 0 | 0 | N/A | N/A | N/A |
| BJ Horne | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | 7 | 90 @ 18 | 1 |
| TA Blundell | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | 6 | 140 @ 23.33 | 1.2 |
| TWM Latham | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | 4 | 118 @ 39.33 | 4.333 |
Observations:
- Dismissals probably really don't mean jack on the surface of it
- Cleaver's form is mirroring that of Latham ODI efforts over time - I had advocated for him in another thread, but nah
- No offence to McLachlan but if you wanted to break into a side as a keeper, move to Wellington
- Seiferts numbers surprised me. I know he's not flash with the gloves but if he didn't become a gun for hire and spent more time in the Ford Trophy this year, he'd possibly be on a plane to Pakistan this weekend
- Fletcher could probably feel aggrieved to not be given a chance by now in the ODI squad
Agree. Unlucky.
Fletcher was pipped by Cleaver for selection on white ball tour to Ire / Scot / WI (including one ODI) in Jul Aug 2022, both had good runs in pre-tour 2021-22 Super Smash but Cleaver batting at #3 for CD rather than Fletcher batting at #5 for Canty made Cleaver a better plug-in for the rested Conway as T20I keeper.
And IIRC since then Latham hasn't had any injuries, Blundell has been the occasional back up ODI keeper, and selectors went outside their comfort zone to pick 24 year old Hay for Nov 2024 white ball tour to Sri Lanka, and I think window has closed on Cleaver and Fletcher.
Last edited:
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
I think Fletcher has made a couple of random NZ white ball squads, but never got a game? I thought he might be worth a shot when our white ball lower order was consistently rubbish as he usually batted 5/6 in white-ball domestically and scored at a high strike rate. Tbf the selectors gave those chances to someone else who deserved it - Josh Clarkson - and he didn't do much.
NZT's numbers are good, though I have an aversion to List A averages as it's the ugly duckling of the domestic competitions. Even if we're talking potential ODI players, I'd give plenty of weighting to performances in both Plunket Shield and Super Smash, not just List A, depending on the skill set required.
NZT's numbers are good, though I have an aversion to List A averages as it's the ugly duckling of the domestic competitions. Even if we're talking potential ODI players, I'd give plenty of weighting to performances in both Plunket Shield and Super Smash, not just List A, depending on the skill set required.
ataraxia
International Coach
To add to this, it's my impression that Ford Trophy records are very much skewed towards top-order batters. Very few average much more than 30 batting at #4 and below (except if you're Fletcher or Rippon for some reason). How the Ford Trophy is played tends to differ significantly from ODIs, IMO.
CricAddict
International Coach
What is the latest update on Ravindra? Has he recovered from the head injury?
Gives off Derek de Boorder vibes. Derek had a hell of a game when he was younger, then changed it away from his natural game (stroke maker) and never got to where I thought he was going to go. Then had a latter-career resurrection of sorts at Otago but left his run too late and was behind too many others. He toured the USA I think on a T20 series v the Windies but didn't play. Fletcher could follow almost that exact pattern (although I'm not sure he changed his game, but maybe he did)
backyardhack86
Cricket Spectator
Rippon gets a lot of red ink. That helps the average.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
I heard Luke Ronchi (NZ batting coach) on the radio this morning. They are taking things carefully with him and it looks extremely unlikely he will play in the tri-series final
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Sensible. Hopefully Conway gets another score and gets moved to 5 and keep for the CT
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
You're not wrong. In ODIs the SR might be a better indication for the lower order players. If I have another quiet night on my hands I might do a follow up with positions batted and SR
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I think he made some squads but that felt like at least 2 years ago, before his current run of form.
I may be mistaking that with him making some A or NZ XI teams
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Just realised I mislabelled the years in the original post - 2024/25 are the first columns whilst 2022/23 are the last columns (2023/24 by dumb luck is correct in the middle)
Anyway I've deleted the 2022/23 season and added the strike rates for the relevant parties
This season by position
# not out due to rain and no result
% Did not keep - Matt Boyle listed as keeper
Chu the Chu-oice if you want a late order hitter, Fletcher if you want more a straight middle order swap for Latham
Anyway I've deleted the 2022/23 season and added the strike rates for the relevant parties
| Player | 2024/25 matches | Runs/Ave | SR | Dis/Inns | 2023/24 | Runs/Ave | SR | Dis/Inns |
| D Cleaver | 7 | 107 @ 17.83 | 86.29 | 1.666 | 9 | 152 @ 19.25 | 80.20 | 2.111 |
| CR McLachlan | 7 | 65 @ 10.83 | 61.90 | 1.428 | 9 | 167 @ 18.55 | 92.77 | 0.888 |
| T Seifert | 3 | 110 @ 36.66 | 101.85 | 2.333 | 8 | 199 @ 28.42 | 87.28 | 1.285 |
| M Hay | 6 | 82 @ 13.66 | 77.35 | 1.2 | 10 | 257 @ 25.70 | 74.70 | 1.3 |
| MW Chu | 7 | 191 @ 31.83 | 98.96 | 0.857 | 10 | 97 @ 16.16 | 82.20 | 1.444 |
| CD Fletcher | 7 | 256 @ 51.20 | 86.48 | 0.833 | 12 | 274 @ 45.66 | 81.06 | 1 |
This season by position
| D Cleaver | CR McLachlan | T Seifert | M Hay | MW Chu | CD Fletcher | |||||||
| Round | Position | Score | Position | Score | Position | Score | Position | Score | Position | Score | Position | Score |
| 1 | 4 | 0 (1) | 6 | 29 (61) | 3 | 6 (9) | 4 | 0 (5) | 7 | 32 (44) | 6 | 17 (23) |
| 2 | 6 | 8 (5) | 6 | 7 (5) | 3 | 102 (87) | 4 | 2 (4) | 7 | 17 (22) | 7 | 20 (47) |
| 3 | 4 | 25* (30)# | No Result | DNP | Match Abandoned | 7 | 28 (32) | 6 | 17 (14) | |||
| 4 | 6 | 19 (11) | 6 | 24 (27) | 3 | 2 (12) | 4 | 0 (2) | 7 | 34 (34) | 6 | DNB |
| 5 | 4 | 4 (15) | 6 | 0 (1) | DNP | 4 | 20 (39) | 7 | 46 (41) | 5 | 67* (62) | |
| 6 | 2 | 45 (56) | 7 | 2 (3) | DNP | 4 | 56 (42)% | 6 | 9 (8) | 4 | 80 (76) | |
| 7 | 1 | 6 (6) | 7 | 3 (8) | DNP | 4 | 4 (14) | 6 | 25 (33) | 5 | 55 (74) | |
# not out due to rain and no result
% Did not keep - Matt Boyle listed as keeper
Chu the Chu-oice if you want a late order hitter, Fletcher if you want more a straight middle order swap for Latham
thierry henry
International Coach
Fletcher 100% would have played on that never ending 2022 white ball tour but he got injured and replaced by Cleaver during the England test series which was before the white ball stuff (where we played the Netherlands, West Indies, Scotland, Ireland et al)
ataraxia
International Coach
NZC lists Hay as keeper for that game. I think cricinfo mess up who they assign as keeper pretty often, if that's where you're getting the data from.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Yes indeed that's where I did
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
I'd forgotten he got injured. Great example of how a fringe player might get an imperfect barely-half-chance at a decent international run and if something goes wrong, that's it. Probably wouldn't have happened, but if he'd stayed fit and pummeled those weak sides on that tour, he'd have then played more NZ cricket and likely still be in the conversation for NZ white ball teams now.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah horrible batting record and he's been around a few years now. Is nearly 26, you'd think he has to average at least 30 with the bat in FC and List A the next few seasons if he's going to keep his Wellington spot.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Ben Horne was actually a huge loss as far as options go