Which team would win

[subshakerz]

Probably yes. Which is my whole point. I'm not here arguing Warne would do a Cullinan on Viv. It's @kyear2 and @subshakerz and @govinda indian fan who are somehow confident he'd leave Warne helpless and "neutralized". Which they have no way of knowing.

Don't mix our arguments. I have argued the following:

- Viv and Sobers would have the advantage over Warne in Aus and Warne would have less than worldclass pacers returns against WI overall
- The bats returns can range from being generally productive to outright dominant
- This is based on them being top tier bats with no known problems against spin and tackled all the quality spinners of their time
- Also based on Warne being less than worldclass pacers returns in Aus and especially his record in the 1st and 2nd innings that set up games
- Also based on a series of bats who had the wood over Warne meaning it was not some very exceptional challenge as being presented

 

[kyear2]

I think saying that Sobers and Viv would do well against Warne and Murali is not some wild assumption but a fairly reasonable one, anymore than saying Gavaskar would. Aggression was the best way to counter Warne. Dominate level is hard to say.


I love how single tests are determining playing ability against spin and not entire tours of India.

Picking of cherries.

 

[kyear2]

The whole discussion was because you and @kyear2 said Warne would be completely neutralized and a non factor . That is indeed not a fairly reasonable assumption.

None of the pitches referenced but one would assist Warne is any way, especially in comparison to that of the spinners.

Against this quality of lineup on unhelpful decks, and especially how he had performed vs Lara and great players of spin during his career, and even in the WI in general, no I don't see it. Especially not in comparison to the pacers.

 

[subshakerz]

None of the pitches referenced but one would assist Warne is any way, especially in comparison to that of the spinners.

Against this quality of lineup on unhelpful decks, and especially how he had performed vs Lara and great players of spin during his career, and even in the WI in general, no I don't see it. Especially not in comparison to the pacers.

Forget WI, Warne averages 26 in Aus and outside of 93 to 97 wasn't really that dangerous there.

These guys really think Warne is going to come and tear it up on Day 1 with WI playing slogs or something.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Forget WI, Warne averages 26 in Aus and outside of 93 to 97 wasn't really that dangerous there.

These guys really think Warne is going to come and tear it up on Day 1 with WI playing slogs or something.

Viv wasn't "World Class" any time bar 76-81

 

[capt_Luffy]

Dude it was his debut series. Big deal.

Pick a lane then. You can't use his record against Chandra to back his success and when confronted he wasn't particularly good vs him first trip just point he wasn't ready.

 

[Johan]

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Viv in games Chandra played

 

[Johan]

Viv wasn't "World Class" any time bar 76-81

nope, averaged 49.1 between 1984 and early 1989, it's like saying Sachin was never world class bar 97-2002

 

[capt_Luffy]

nope, averaged 49.1 between 1984 and early 1989, it's like saying Sachin was never world class bar 97-2002

Like Subz literally says averaging sub 50 isn't "World Class"...... Like Warne

 

[capt_Luffy]

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Viv in games Chandra played

92 home
23 away

Equal games .......

 

[Johan]

Like Subz literally says averaging sub 50 isn't "World Class"...... Like Warne

Subs is a silly man

 

[subshakerz]

Viv wasn't "World Class" any time bar 76-81

I would argue he was around the 82 to 88.

 

[subshakerz]

Like Subz literally says averaging sub 50 isn't "World Class"...... Like Warne

No I said averaging early 40s isn't worldclass.

 

[subshakerz]

Pick a lane then. You can't use his record against Chandra to back his success and when confronted he wasn't particularly good vs him first trip just point he wasn't ready.

His record against Chandra is based on the 76 series.

 

[Johan]

92 home
23 away

Equal games .......

it's not like Chandra dominated him either

3 times he fell to Chandra
2 times to Prasanna
1 run out
1 Madan lal

and it's not like he made his 192* against rookies, it was against Prasanna (averages 26.9 at home), Bedi (averages 24 at home) and Venkat (averages 30 at home). also, Chandra bowled infinitely better in the West Indies series than he did in the India series.

 

[capt_Luffy]

His record against Chandra is based on the 76 series.

Which was at home and again, one series. Can't just act the other never happened. My point, his record vs Chanders and Indian spinners especially is Great. No other way to put it. But it's silly to translate it to Warne, almost as much it is to transfer the latters success vs Sangakkara to Viv

 

[capt_Luffy]

it's not like Chandra dominated him either

3 times he fell to Chandra
2 times to Prasanna
1 run out
1 Madan lal

and it's not like he made his 192* against rookies, it was against Prasanna (averages 26.9 at home), Bedi (averages 24 at home) and Venkat (averages 30 at home). also, Chandra bowled infinitely better in the West Indies series than he did in the India series.

See above

 

[govinda indian fan]

Subs is a silly man

Lol. Averaging above 45 is world class

 

[govinda indian fan]

Probably yes. Which is my whole point. I'm not here arguing Warne would do a Cullinan on Viv. It's @kyear2 and @subshakerz and @govinda indian fan who are somehow confident he'd leave Warne helpless and "neutralized". Which they have no way of knowing.

This is without wanting to get into the merits of batsmen like Kallis, Sanga, Mahela, Inzi , Dravid, etc. (I actually think they're close to as good as Viv against spin in particular).

Mate viv is one of most talented batsmen ever bar don sachin lara and sobers. Sure warne would get him couple of times before viv eventually adjusts and gets on top of him

 

[subshakerz]

Which was at home and again, one series. Can't just act the other never happened. My point, his record vs Chanders and Indian spinners especially is Great. No other way to put it. But it's silly to translate it to Warne, almost as much it is to transfer the latters success vs Sangakkara to Viv

It translates because he is top tier bat with less to prove than Warne does vice versa.