Which team would win

[Coronis]

not pointing fingers at anyone but do think pointing fingers at Viv with certain arguments is very easy, certainly far easier than using the same arguments and logic on Sachin, Sobers or Smith, even if the arguments are valid or even the exact same.

I think this is completely fair.

My impression has always been, from the people I’ve seen who do put him in the best after Bradman conversation, for the large majority he seems to be below the other 3 names often brought up.

 

[kyear2]

Gibbs is playing Johan. With 4 pacers, WI are getting over rate penalty

Then we draw. Gibbs isn't playing on those surfaces.

You're really eager for that advantage aren't you.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Then we draw. Gibbs isn't playing on those surfaces.

Then you are losing actually.....

 

[Johan]

unless the test is like 8 days or timeless, an ATG XI matchup isn't ending

 

[capt_Luffy]

Look harder. Warne was taken apart by considerably less players than Headley, Sobers and Viv.

Warne and Murali got tagged by India, Australia and Lara in ways no great fast bowler has. Warne was just fortunate not to face Australia as well.

Spinners outside of niche helpful conditions don't move the needle against great batsmen quite the same way great pacers do.

Warne is ATG for a reason. He troubled Great players regularly enough. I find it laughable to think with any confidence Viv or Sobers or Headley will dominate Warne. Lol. Australian bowling is just better.

 

[capt_Luffy]

@Johan I change my stance. The MO benefit without Don isn't enough for WI to win really over the Warne factor.

 

[kyear2]

He'll be a huge asset or a liability depending on the pitch, if he gets a road, Yeah. I don't get how people think I said he's a general liability, I just think fast bowlers are more well rounded, and spinners are inherently pitch reliant and can indeed be middling on flat pitches, I conceded Warne would be a factor in India or a classical Sydney pitch.

Exactly.

And important distinction, that's in India, not vs India.

 

[Coronis]

Then we draw. Gibbs isn't playing on those surfaces.

You're really eager for that advantage aren't you.

From all I've read he was so damn negative and defensive. His first objective was not to lose.

Such damn negative selection policies.

 

[kyear2]

I thought I would’ve noticed.


Speaking of Viv though, I have some shocking news. There was something a few weeks ago that made me want to reconsider my ordering of batsmen around that area. In all likelihood, he will be moving up in my estimation.

What pray tell would that be if I may ask?

 

[Johan]

@Johan I change my stance. The MO benefit without Don isn't enough for WI to win really over the Warne factor.

well Warne averages more than Andy Roberts, I don't think he's too much of a factor but fair.

 

[kyear2]

A leg spinner like Warne is the least pitch dependent and will run havoc in almost anywhere from day 4 onwards. Also more capable of bowling long spells, so less need for bringing your Chappell's and Simpson's in the attack.

And what happens if he gets taken apart?

 

[capt_Luffy]

well Warne averages more than Andy Roberts, I don't think he's too much of a factor but fair.

I think bigger than the others.

 

[capt_Luffy]

And what happens if he gets taken apart?

He will run through them on a 4th Day pitch

 

[Johan]

I think bigger than the others.

You sure do think big, like One Piece type big

 

[sayon basak]

well Warne averages more than Andy Roberts.

After playing 3.5× matches.

 

[sayon basak]

You sure do think big, like One Piece type big

The Ginger girl and the dark haired girl are pretty big imo.

 

[capt_Luffy]

After playing 3.5× matches.

And bowling a **** ton of more overs and having a much higher WPM

 

[Johan]

honestly made a mistake by giving you spin fans anything, I should return to Trueman>Warne

 

[Johan]

I think this is completely fair.

My impression has always been, from the people I’ve seen who do put him in the best after Bradman conversation, for the large majority he seems to be below the other 3 names often brought up.

I'd agree that's probably the majority perception, recently Sobers beat Viv like an unwanted stepchild in a poll.

 

[kyear2]

Then you are losing actually.....

Bridgetown, Perth, Johannesburg and Leeds?

How does Gibbs help?