Which team would win

[capt_Luffy]

The scenes when Viv or Sobers hits Warne for 6 sixes on a day 4 on this pitch

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2020-21-1243364/india-vs-england-3rd-test-1243386/full-scorecard

Right................................................................................................................

 

[capt_Luffy]

I do mind

Well I don't particularly mind whether you mind or not; just share IT!!!!!

 

[Coronis]

Well I don't particularly mind whether you mind or not; just share IT!!!!!

Mind ur beeswax

 

[Johan]

I do mind

apologies

 

[subshakerz]

I thought I would’ve noticed.


Speaking of Viv though, I have some shocking news. There was something a few weeks ago that made me want to reconsider my ordering of batsmen around that area. In all likelihood, he will be moving up in my estimation.

I am happy.

 

[Johan]

Right................................................................................................................

MC aura etc

 

[kyear2]

Wasn't the majority was with Don though???

You'll know than Don lost more matches in his career than Marshall did right?

And that's with playing 15 of 52 tests vs abject minnows.

I'm 56 tests as an opening bowler it was even less.

He's not the automatic cheat code that is being presented here.

It's the fast bowlers who are the cheat codes.

 

[kyear2]

exactly, Holding was GOATed, better than Donald for me

Only reason I don't rate Holding higher was the injuries and durability.

Didn't played long enough personally

Doesn't change his quality. He's every bit as good as guys like Lillee, Donald, Imran & Wasim.
And faster than any of them.

 

[subshakerz]

A leg spinner like Warne is the least pitch dependent and will run havoc in almost anywhere from day 4 onwards. Also more capable of bowling long spells, so less need for bringing your Chappell's and Simpson's in the attack.

Yeah the fact that Warne only comes into the game Day 4 onwards itself is a slight liability compared to a worldclass pacer. And then again this lineup he will face many more bad days

 

[kyear2]

Yes. I would go Trumper and ...... Sheesh, it's tough.

Most underrated batsman on CW is Viv followed by possibly Kallis.

Hammond has an argument as well.

 

[subshakerz]

Doesn't change his quality. He's every bit as good as guys like Lillee, Donald, Imran & Wasim.
And faster than any of them.

Holding is better than any Aussie third seamer.

 

[subshakerz]

Most underrated batsman on CW is Viv followed by possibly Kallis.

Hammond has an argument as well.

Don't mention Kallis with the King.

 

[kyear2]

Thoughts on Simpson vs any other Windies opener? Just curious

First off it was supposed to wasn't equal.

Greenidge is a much better bat than Haydos.

And I'm using Worrell as I've consistently said. Not leaving the captain on the beach...

If I have to use another opener it's Fredericks..

And Simpson was better, but Roy played in tougher era and is a little forgotten these days. Against Australia and it's not Worrell, it's him all day every day with Greenidge.

 

[kyear2]

don't think this is true

It's primarily Luffy, Coronis and PEWS, and for Luffy it's his excuse to say he wasn't much better than Sunny.

The other two have their own reasons.

But yeah, Viv is right up there with Sachin, and most of the forum who never saw him or understand his impact don't quite get that.

A quick YouTube search if innings or testimonials would solve that, but we're purely in the spreadsheet age where some would think that Kallis, Sanga etc come even close to the great man

 

[kyear2]

Lillee over Holding for me, not by a margin or anything but think Lillee is just a slower but more skillful Holding

I have them very much in the same tier / grouping

 

[Johan]

not pointing fingers at anyone but do think pointing fingers at Viv with certain arguments is very easy, certainly far easier than using the same arguments and logic on Sachin, Sobers or Smith, even if the arguments are valid or even the exact same.

 

[kyear2]

D-I-S-A-G-R-E-E

Trumper ATG. They aren't.

Trumper isn't for me either.

Trumper, Grace nor Barnes even close to an AT team for me.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You'll know than Dan lost more matches in his career than Marshall did right?

And that's with playing 15 of 52 tests vs abject minnows.

I'm 56 tests as an opening bowler it was even less.

He's not the automatic cheat code that is being presented here.

It's the fast bowlers who are the cheat codes.

I do know Lyon has a higher win % than Marshall

Also Australian pacers are almost as good as WI ones. No way the gap is anything significant.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Trumper isn't for me either.

Trumper, Grace nor Barnes even close to an AT team for me.

D-I-S-A-G-R-E-E

Trumper WAG

 

[kyear2]

I don't think I have seen enough of a case to suggest any WI bar Lara would be comfortable to Warne. Benching Gibbs is a new one. And McGrath is a beast anywhere. Pacers belongs to WI, but bowlers to Australia.

Look harder. Warne was taken apart by considerably lesser players than Headley, Sobers and Viv.

Warne and Murali got tagged by India, Australia and Lara in ways no great fast bowler has. Warne was just fortunate not to face Australia as well.

Spinners outside of niche helpful conditions don't move the needle against great batsmen quite the same way great pacers do.