Aswin vs Lyon

[Narayana]

Would call someone who averages 30 almost everywhere a threat.

It's not raw average at all.

Spinners are supposed to carry the team in spin friendly conditions. If they can't do that then it's a failure. Team is depending on you and you can't deliver.

Since 2018-
Lyon in indian pitches -4 matches 22 wickets.
Aswin -;4 matches 25 wickets.
How he is not carrying aus bowling ?

 

[Johan]

All besides the point since India last decade play Axar or Kuldeep and Lyon makes it ahead of those.

Axar and Kuldeep are both better bowlers than Lyon, plus Axar could bat.

SA and SL are part of two different regions.

SA is closer to SL than it is to Australia, but you consider SENA a region don't you?

Let's imagine what Harbi would average in Australia over the 2010s shall we?

not suffecient information

Won games in SL, India, Pakistan, England, NZ from what I recall

never happened in England, sure In NZ, Ashwin has won loads more for India in SL and Ind.

 

[Johan]

What if Ashwin only played 30 percent of his games in India? That means he is a 30 percent worse cricketer all of a sudden? Come on man.

You only see the good in Ashwin and ignore his ineffectiveness.

Yes, because he is less of use to his team due to mastering conditions where he doesn't play enough

 

[Johan]

Which regions?

define "region"

 

[sayon basak]

define "region"

Not sure, is "SENA" a region?

 

[subshakerz]

Axar and Kuldeep are both better bowlers than Lyon, plus Axar could bat.

Yeah totally disagree.

SA is closer to SL than it is to Australia, but you consider SENA a region don't you?

Um no, SL is distinct from both.

not suffecient information

Lol oh God.

never happened in England or Pakistan, sure In NZ, Ashwin has won loads more for India in SL and Ind.

So you just ignored games Lyon won in SC when you made you comment? Lyon has run through England in at a game each if the last two Ashes. He took a fifer to clinch the series in Pak.

 

[subshakerz]

define "region"

SC or SENA.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes, because he is less of use to his team due to mastering conditions where he doesn't play enough

That makes him 30 percent less valuable for India not 30 percent worse as a bowler.

His overall quality as a bowler is independent of how much he plays where.

 

[sayon basak]

SC or SENA.

What's WI?

 

[subshakerz]

What's WI?

Too weak to consider. A near minnow team the last decade.

 

[Johan]

Yeah totally disagree.

Okay

Um no, SL is distinct from both.

Um no, you have to define "region", are we going geographically? because then SENA isn't a region, are we going by the pitches? because then Aus and SA are similar but are as different from England and New Zealand as they're from Sri Lanka and India, are we going by the countries where spinners generally struggle? because then SENA's existence makes sense. Clear it up.

Lol oh God.

Lol

So you just ignored games Lyon won in SC when you made you comment? Lyon has run through England in at a game each if the last two Ashes. He took a fifer to clinch the series in Pak.

Australia won edgebaston because Cummins batted well, logically no team wins from 227-8, and taking a cheap 6fer in the final inning where a **** batting lineup is chasing 400 isn't match winning. I ignored Asia.

 

[Johan]

That makes him 30 percent less valuable for India not 30 percent worse as a bowler.

His overall quality as a bowler is independent of how much he plays where.

a player's quality is dependent on the value to the side, based on some skill argument you can probably argue KL Rahul is more skillful than Virender Sehwag, means nothing.

 

[subshakerz]

Um no, you have to define "region", are we going geographically? because then SENA isn't a region, are we going by the pitches? because then Aus and SA are similar but are as different from England and New Zealand as they're from Sri Lanka and India, are we going by the countries where spinners generally struggle? because then SENA's existence makes sense. Clear it up.

Yes where spinners generally struggle.

Australia won edgebaston because Cummins batted well, logically no team wins from 227-8, and taking a cheap 6fer in the final inning where a **** batting lineup is chasing 400 isn't match winning. I ignored Asia.

Sorry but Lyon took 8 wickets that Edgbaston game which was a key performance. And yeah a cheap 6fer literally seals the game, matchwinning doesn't mean doing all the effort to set up the game, the point is he ran through England. Ashwin never did this.

So Lyon won games Aus, NZ, Eng and SC. Allround performer.

 

[subshakerz]

a player's quality is dependent on the value to the side

That's just patently untrue. WI of the 80s had worldclass bowlers they had to bench because they were already fully stocked.

 

[Randomfan]

How is bro gonna compete with Ashwin when he can't even get past Harbhajan

maybe think before responding for once, a Cricketer can have ATG output in certain nations without being a full on ATG everywhere, Kane Williamson in NZ for example.

Yah, like IK has ATG record in home, but not same record ( avg 25-26) away. If he was not ATG record in any region then he would have been not talked at all.

No amount of cheap home wickets will compensate for Ashwin being ineffective when conditions are tougher.

IK did pick lots of cheap wickets( Avg 20) and that did compensate for not so cheap wickets( avg 25-26) away. In his case, it was actually easier conditions away.

Point is not that IK = Ashwin. Point is you got to be great in some conditions. There is no point in all condition spinner who is poor in spin friendly conditions.

 

[Narayana]

Okay


Um no, you have to define "region", are we going geographically? because then SENA isn't a region, are we going by the pitches? because then Aus and SA are similar but are as different from England and New Zealand as they're from Sri Lanka and India, are we going by the countries where spinners generally struggle? because then SENA's existence makes sense. Clear it up.


Lol


Australia won edgebaston because Cummins batted well, logically no team wins from 227-8, and taking a cheap 6fer in the final inning where a **** batting lineup is chasing 400 isn't match winning. I ignored Asia.

All sena countries pitches offers lateral movements.

 

[Johan]

Yes where spinners generally struggle.

Ok, so Williamson struggles in regions that offer support for Bounce/movement/spin, generally where batters struggle.

Sorry but Lyon took 8 wickets that Edgbaston game which was a key performance.

at average of 28, not to mention, he was the one taken to the cleaners in the first inning at the first place.

And yeah a cheap 6fer literally seals the game, matchwinning doesn't mean doing all the effort to set up the game, the point is he ran through England.

Nah, the game was sealed when Australia put 400 as a score, you can have domestic bowlers bowling and even then England won't chase it.

So Lyon won games Aus, NZ, Eng and SC. Allround performer.

NZ Yeah, the one away game Lyon ever won for his time in "tough" conditions.

 

[subshakerz]

Point is not that IK = Ashwin. Point is you got to be great in some conditions. There is no point in all condition spinner who is poor in spin friendly conditions.

This is just a bogus example. Nobody would consider IKs home conditions ideal for pace bowling like Ashwins was for spin.

And Lyon wasn't poor in spin conditions anyways. He did well in India and won games in SL and Pak.

 

[Johan]

That's just patently untrue. WI of the 80s had worldclass bowlers they had to bench because they were already fully stocked.

they can't be rated because they didn't play, unfortunate, but that is just how things are. Let me put it like this for you, when it comes to being "complete", someone like Mark Richardson or Trescothick was more complete than Virender Sehwag and Mahela Jayawerdene on technicality and better all round, but their careers don't stack up so they aren't better.

 

[Johan]

All sena countries pitches offers lateral movements.

so does Asgiriya in Sri Lanka, and Australia for decades didn't aid movement, didn't mean SENA as a concept ceased