Aswin vs Lyon

[subshakerz]

maybe think before responding for once, a Cricketer can have ATG output in certain nations without being a full on ATG everywhere, Kane Williamson in NZ for example.

Ashwin having ATG output in India is similar to pacers in SA having ATG output. Sometimes conditions are so friendly it devalues the numbers.

 

[sayon basak]

Okeeffe also outbowled aswin in a series in india. https://www.espncricinfo.com/record...s-career/border-gavaskar-trophy-2016-17-11592

That's just one series, and O'Keefe still only managed to average 3 runs lower with similar WPI.

 

[Narayana]

iirc, Ashwin was carrying an injury this series and that doesn't even prove much, because O Keefe genuinely bowled brilliantly

Okay, but he got outbowled by newbie. Who didn't have any experience in Asian pitches.

 

[subshakerz]

What?

Williamson doesn't correspond to Ashwin, Ashwins problems are in SENA, Williamson was poor in a mix of SC and SENA countries

 

[Johan]

Nope because Williamson is just generally weak away not specific to certain regions.

??? he scores on flatties (Pakistan/UAE/2015 Aus) and goes missing in England where the ball moves, India and Sri Lanka where they turn, his other Australia tours and his SA work (but maybe this can be ignored), by all means, you should argue Fleming>Kane if you're not a hypocrite

 

[subshakerz]

Okay, but he got outbowled by newbie. Who didn't have any experience in Asian pitches.

Yeah all these newbies like Hartley, Kuhenmann, etc who bowled cheap fifers in India were all just worldclass spinners. Nothing to do with conditions at all.

 

[Johan]

Ashwin having ATG output in India is similar to pacers in SA having ATG output. Sometimes conditions are so friendly it devalues the numbers.

so...the same argument that can be applied to Williamson>Fleming, saying Williamson's home decks are flat and good for batting.

 

[subshakerz]

??? he scores on flatties (Pakistan/UAE/2015 Aus) and goes missing in England where the ball moves, India and Sri Lanka where they turn, his other Australia tours and his SA work (but maybe this can be ignored), by all means, you should argue Fleming>Kane if you're not a hypocrite

So you are comparing Williamson who sucks across regions to Ashwin who I specifically SENA (as in non SC, WI)

 

[Johan]

Okay, but he got outbowled by newbie. Who didn't have any experience in Asian pitches.

Lyon got outbowled in every game he played alongside Ashwin, India or Australia, means more imo.

 

[subshakerz]

so...the same argument that can be applied to Williamson>Fleming, saying Williamson's home decks are flat and good for batting.

Fleming sucked at home and in several away countries.

 

[Johan]

Fleming sucked at home and in several away countries.

so...like Lyon

 

[sayon basak]

Yeah all these newbies like Hartley, Kuhenmann, etc who bowled cheap fifers in India were all just worldclass spinners. Nothing to do with conditions at all.

Then why couldn't Lyon Outbowl Ashwin in India? Lyon also couldn't Outbowl Ashwin in Australia.

 

[subshakerz]

Lyon got outbowled in every game he played alongside Ashwin, India or Australia, means more imo.

Yeah but that's half the story. In 2014/15 he took a 12fer to win a game in a match Ashwin missed. In 2018 he won the game on Perth in the game Ashwin missed.

It's not like Ashwins presence suddenly made him a worse bowler.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah all these newbies like Hartley, Kuhenmann, etc who bowled cheap fifers in India were all just worldclass spinners. Nothing to do with conditions at all.

Lyon even got outbowled by Ashwin in Australia in 2020-21, let alone India tbf

 

[Johan]

So you are comparing Williamson who sucks across regions to Ashwin who I specifically SENA (as in non SC, WI)

Ashwin goes missing in SENA conditions which you described as tough — Lyon is better

Williamson goes missing in any condition that can be described as hard for batting — nah, Fleming isn't better

lol

 

[subshakerz]

so...like Lyon

Lyon doesn't suck at home for an offspinners at all.

 

[subshakerz]

Lyon even got outbowled by Ashwin in Australia in 2020-21, let alone India tbf

Sure but he had performances in the previously two tours of India in Aus that outstrip anything Ashwin did.

 

[Narayana]

Then why couldn't Lyon Outbowl Ashwin in India? Lyon also couldn't Outbowl Ashwin in Australia.

Aswin record looks good because he played against a weak AUS / 2nd string in 2018 bgt.

 

[subshakerz]

Then why couldn't Lyon Outbowl Ashwin in India? Lyon also couldn't Outbowl Ashwin in Australia.

Nobody is doubting Ashwins mastery of his own conditions but Lyon also bowled well in India.

And like I said, in those series in Aus, Lyon produced better performances.

 

[subshakerz]

Ashwin goes missing in SENA conditions which you described as tough — Lyon is better

Williamson goes missing in any condition that can be described as hard for batting — nah, Fleming isn't better

lol

Williamson isn't a direct comparison is the point.