• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Mcgrath vs Wasim Akram

Better odi bowler?

  • Total voters
    25
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

International Debutant
I think he missed a few matches in the beginning and some people did not want to pick him but he proved all doubters wrong with just one match
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
DrWolverine said:
I think he missed a few matches in the beginning and some people did not want to pick him but he proved all doubters wrong with just one match
Click to expand...
Indian team management were pure ****ing unadulterated ****. Shami was 4th highest wicket taker in 2015 (2nd for India, with 1 less wicket in 1 less match and better average), so they benched him in 2019. He comes in mid way, has an absolutely top tier Great World Cup run with a hat-trick. Ofcourse they do the only logical thing in 2023, bench him for Shardul ****ing Thakur!!!!! Genius! The only reason he even played was due to Hardik being injured.
 
R

Rob Wesley

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
capt_Luffy said:
Starc 2015 is probably the Greatest WC ever by a bowler, with Shami 2019 being a close second.
Click to expand...
Due to addition to T20s, the number of ODIs have dropped significantly and hence comparison from pre-2008 players become tough.

It becomes hard to rate Bumrah purely on 150 odi wickets when you have the likes of Wasim picking 500 and Waqar picking 440. It suggests that bilaterala are not significant these days in which case we should be prioritising the World Cup performances atleast for modern era players like Starc, Bumrah, Shami, Boult etc.

But purely on that, we can’t even simply put them above the likes of McGrath or Wasim who played a lot of bilaterals in their era and won the World Cup too.

So, due to the evolution of ODI cricket and the change in priority, we can’t really have consistency while comparing an ODI fast bowler of today to the ones in 90s or 00s.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
Rob Wesley said:
Due to addition to T20s, the number of ODIs have dropped significantly and hence comparison from pre-2008 players become tough.

It becomes hard to rate Bumrah purely on 150 odi wickets when you have the likes of Wasim picking 500 and Waqar picking 440. It suggests that bilaterala are not significant these days in which case we should be prioritising the World Cup performances atleast for modern era players like Starc, Bumrah, Shami, Boult etc.

But purely on that, we can’t even simply put them above the likes of McGrath or Wasim who played a lot of bilaterals in their era and won the World Cup too.

So, due to the evolution of ODI cricket and the change in priority, we can’t really have consistency while comparing an ODI fast bowler of today to the ones in 90s or 00s.
Click to expand...
Yeah agree pretty much. Don't necessarily think that's a bad thing though. Might be for my age, but never particularly cared for bilaterals or those **** ton of triseries and Hero Cupesque trophies.
 
R

Rob Wesley

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
capt_Luffy said:
Yeah agree pretty much. Don't necessarily think that's a bad thing though. Might be for my age, but never particularly cared for bilaterals or those **** ton of triseries and Hero Cupesque trophies.
Click to expand...
World Cup was pinnacle even in 90s too but let’s take an example. Would we pick Cummins over Waqar in ODI due to their performance in World Cups? Cummins bowled a superb spell in Finals and led the team magnificently throughout the WC. Waqar played in 1996 and he got smoked by Ajay Jadeja in the QF knockout in absence of Wasim and Pakistan got knocked out despite being one of the favourites.
 
R

Randomfan

School Boy/Girl Captain
Rob Wesley said:
Due to addition to T20s, the number of ODIs have dropped significantly and hence comparison from pre-2008 players become tough.

It becomes hard to rate Bumrah purely on 150 odi wickets when you have the likes of Wasim picking 500 and Waqar picking 440. It suggests that bilaterala are not significant these days in which case we should be prioritising the World Cup performances atleast for modern era players like Starc, Bumrah, Shami, Boult etc.
Click to expand...
You are correct it's hard to make apple to apple comparison, but simply having a long career can't be a criterion. You have to stand out across era or at least in your own era. Not in all screens but some of them.

Just looking at output, some one can't be blamed for thinkng that 90s kids over rate Wasim in ODI.

For example,

Wasim played 30-40 finals, yah many were trie series but a lot more stake in those matches than regular bilaterals. As expected all names are from older era because we don't play tri series now.

Wasim does not stand out in finals and he has played plenty so not an issue of sample size.

Pacers in finals


1737604472527.png

The same situation for his WC record, see below. He does not stand out in anything and in some in a negative way.

Pacers in WC against non-minnows - sorted by Avg

1737577390151.png



Pacers in WC against non-minnows -sorted by SR

1737577439400.png



Now he finally appears in top half in ER.

Pacers in WC against non-minnows -sorted by ER

1737577537801.png



One of the worst avg and SR in WC. ER look good and it's not bad, but you can notice that Bumrah has less ER than Wasim so what does Wasim has going for him in WC record. Not comparing him to Bumrah, just in general. One spell in finals?

So some one looking at actual output in finals of tri-series and entire WC record, why will they think that Wasim was top 2-3 pacers in ODI history? Wasim's sample size here is 60-70 most important ODI's he may have played. Poor to decent record.

This is Wasim and you are sayng that Waqar should be rated very high comapred to Starc/Bumrah etc. He does not even appear in any of these lists and clearly inferior to his team mate Wasim. He was very expensive in ODI games for his era and it's not like you can make up by picking wickets quicker. He was pickign less than 2 wickets in each game, you can't pick many due to only bowling 10 overs. So being expensive was costly.

I mean, I get it that we can't compare volume of previous era to now, but if current players are mostly playing important games. We should be able to see what previous era bowlers did in important games, right? I am not syaing that we ignore volume of previous era, but you got to stand out some where in a meaningful sample size to cement top 2-3 in history. It can't be one spell here and there. Every bowler will have those and players play 1-2 finals in WC if they are lucky.

I am not saying that Wasim is not a legedn in ODI and ATG. I am trying to say that we are too quick to dismiss modwern era pacers due to not having volume. I am presenting a flip side here because all of us are too quick to say Wasim is top 2-3 bowler in ODI history based on picking 2 wickets in finals in one spell.

So if some one who has not watched Wasim, says why Wasim should be rated that high in ODI, we got to show the actual output and not tons of intangibles. I am a huge Wasim fan, but I was not able to provide great reasons to rate Wasim among the top 2-3 on history when asked about it.

Any help?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top