Really, Imran batting as captain vs WI in 1980's average was only 25.62 and Dev was 25.76 (we are talking about WI pace quartet targeting the captain)
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Rank the 80s allrounders against the WI
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
capt_Luffy
International Coach
I was talking about performance as a captain really. I think it makes much more sense for pacers to Target Gavaskar and Miandad in place of those two (and they infact did so).
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Kapil did averages 31 against them with 1000+ runs and 3 centuries alongside a few very good knocks. Would definitely say that's great from a no 7 vs that line-up.
That's heavily influenced by his first 6 tests vs WI when they were WSC depleted in 1978/79. He averaged 107 in one of those 3 test series
Dev averaged 25.00 vs full strength Windies in the 1980's
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Averaged 42 with a pretty good century in his next WI tour as well. Arguably was our 2nd best batsman. Flopped in the subsequent home series, but did good again in 87.
Under Imran's captaincy in the 80s, Pak never lost a series to Windies either home or away. Imran's team was the only team to win a Test match against the Windies in their backyard in the entire 80s decade. They were also the only team to come back undefeated from a West Indies tour in that decade. Those Pak-Windies series in the 80s were absolute dogfights.
Here is an excerpt from an article on those Pak-Windies 80's series (this article was published in 2007).
"Modern Test cricket can be akin to the school playground: the batting bullies prey upon frail bowlers who are given little or no support by both the authorities/rules and their culture. But at least this damage has a natural limit: sticks and stones may break your bones, but X-rated figures will never hurt you. It was different in the 1980s, when West Indies' army of fast bowlers turned Test cricket into a war zone. They were armed with so much more than sticks and stones - when they brutalised England inside three days in Sabina Park in 1986 Wisden Cricket Monthly described it as "cricket's equivalent to the Somme". But amid the rubble and bodies left in their wake, one opponent stood proud and unbeaten. In three Test series against the otherwise omnipotent Windies in the late 80s and early 90s, Pakistan drew 1-1 each time.
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The only other sides to draw a series with West Indies in that period were India and New Zealand, each at home, but when they went to the Caribbean they were both mangled. Not Pakistan under Imran's captaincy. Their bald record suggests a very special side: they were the only team to win a Test in the Caribbean in the 80s, the only team to avoid defeat in a series in the Caribbean between 1974 and 1995.
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Their battles with West Indies, in three series in 1986-87, 1987-88 and 1990-91, are forgotten epics of the game. In an age when flat pitches and high scores predominated, these were revelatory dogfights, low-scoring scraps of such quality and artistic integrity that they might have been produced by HBO: in four of the nine Tests the first-innings difference was 25 or under, and only one of 35 innings exceeded 400. Each time Pakistan won the first Test of a series; each time West Indies roared back like champions; each time Pakistan resisted an almost violently turning tide to emerge from the series with a draw.
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When West Indies returned to Pakistan, in 1990-91, the hosts had lost a Qadir and found a Waqar Younis. It turned out to be a decent trade, and he took nine wickets as Pakistan breezed to victory by eight wickets in the first Test despite only three players reaching double figures in their first innings: Shoaib (86 in eight hours), Malik (102) and Imran (73 not out). History repeated as West Indies cantered home by seven wickets in the second Test, and again in the third as Imran - just as in 1986-87 - ensured a draw by batting five hours for an unbeaten 58 on the final day.
It was fitting that the last word went to Imran, because he lorded over these contests like a colossus. Despite a series of ailments he was Pakistan's only ever-present in those three series (West Indies had five). Nobody on either side got near his 45 wickets at the blistering average of 14.87, and he added 356 runs at 32.36 for good measure. At the age of 38, this was his last significant act in Test cricket. He could retire safe in the knowledge that he had not lost the final battle, and that he had never lost the war."
West Indian fast bowler Andy Roberts on Pakistan
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Yeah, I should have said the '80's Windies pace quartet obviously always targeted the best batsman and also the captain
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subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Imran has three consecutive Man of Series against the WI of the 80s and took 51 wickets in 10 tests@16. So him first.
Then Kapil.
Then Hadlee.
Then Botham.
Then Kapil.
Then Hadlee.
Then Botham.
I think you'll find Hadlee did better than Kapil with both bat and ball vs West Indies in the '80's
Hadlee, 10 Tests vs WI in 1980's
389 runs @ 32.41, 51 wkts @ 22.01 (5.1 wpm)
Dev, 19 Tests vs WI in 1980's
750 runs @ 25.00, 72 wkts @ 22.98 ( 3.8 wpm)
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subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Kapil did better in the WI though.
As if that overrides all the other stats lol.
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Hadlee's WI tour was rather alright. And Kapil did pretty well there with the bat as well (42 avg with a century). Also averaged 31 in his last series in 87, had one poor in between. It should also be noted Kapil just played them much more regularly and had more quality knocks.
Kapil averaged 25.00 vs WI in the '80's, why do any "quality knocks" change that?
capt_Luffy
International Coach
3 centuries (and a 98) vs Hadlee's 1, 4 50s vs 1. 42 away and was our 2nd best batsman. Hadlee just didn't do enough of consequence with the bat imo unless you just want to go by average.
You're counting pre-1980 Dev feasting out on WSC decimated West Indies again
capt_Luffy
International Coach
2 Centuries, 1 98, 1 69 and a couple of 40s. Two not outs compared to Hadlee's three in double the innings (have RPIs of 26 and 23.4 respectively).
And yet Dev averaged 25 00 overall in the '80's. Hadlee averaged 32.41
capt_Luffy
International Coach
I mean Viv averages 50 and Barrington 58......
Coronis
International Coach
And Barrington is better than Viv. Tracks imo.