Imran Khan vs Curtley Ambrose

[akilana]

He doesn't bother to look at the actual series in someone's record. If he did, he wouldn't be commenting the way he does.

that's how you look at for players you don't like.

 

[subshakerz]

I admit, I look at Imran in Australia the same way you look at Ambrose in Pakistan.

I don't see Ambrose as good in Pakistan with a 3WPM.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

How do you rate Steyn who also has high averages in many places?

Steyn I'll give the edge over Imran and Curtly because he played in a seriously messed up era for pace bowling. He was great away but imo, not on the same level as Sir Curtly. And can you please stop bringing up wsc. They have never been and never will be tests. I don't include them for Viv, Lillee, Garner as much as I'd love to. Ditto Sobers and his stats in World XI matches.

 

[DrWolverine]

Well Said Imran could have had a better bowling record if he purely focused on Bowling like Ambrose.

That’s makes Hadlee even more impressive.

Hadlee was a lone wolf and one man army.

A legend and automatic pick in ATG 11 for me.

 

[subshakerz]

that's how you look at for players you don't like.

For example? Even for Lara I go series by series.

 

[subshakerz]

Steyn I'll give the edge over Imran and Curtly because he played in a seriously messed up era for pace bowling. He was great away but imo, not on the same level as Sir Curtly. And can you please stop bringing up wsc. They have never been and never will be tests. I don't include them for Viv, Lillee, Garner as much as I'd love to. Ditto Sobers and his stats in World XI matches.

So Steyn was worse away than Ambrose and had much easier home conditions, why does he get over Ambrose?

This is just the case for introducing context to account for stats for certain bowlers and not others.

We can disagree about WSC.

 

[kyear2]

So you can allow context for Steyn but not Imran.

The fact that you would read that, and that's the next question that comes to mind speaks wonders.

But what context. According to a horrible thread you once started, Imran should get an average boost because of how bad his home pitches were compared to everyone else.

So he should have performed better abroad yes? The "context" didn't seem to bother his home record did they?

I provided context, you bring excuses and want to cherry pick.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I don't see Ambrose as good in Pakistan with a 3WPM.

Ambrose played his 1st series there with Marshall, Walsh and Bishop. His 2nd series there (injured) with Bishop and Walsh. Surely you understand that he had much much more competition for wickets than Imran ever had.

 

[kyear2]

His pre 94 career isn't THAT much better. Mainly it's his penetration that suffered.

Penetration is s/r, again you're referring to volume, which is what was impacted by the injury...

 

[subshakerz]

I provided context, you bring excuses and want to cherry pick.

You have double standards.

You mock using context of age for Imran's stats and insist on raw average reading.

But insist on using it for Steyns stats and avoid raw reading.

 

[subshakerz]

Penetration is s/r, again you're referring to volume, which is what was impacted by the injury...

Yes and made him a more diminished bowler.

 

[Van_Sri]

That’s makes Hadlee even more impressive.

Hadlee was a lone wolf and one man army.

A legend and automatic pick in ATG 11 for me.

View attachment 44662

View attachment 44663

Imran was better than Hadlee in West Indies

 

[subshakerz]

Ambrose played his 1st series there with Marshall, Walsh and Bishop. His 2nd series there (injured) with Bishop and Walsh. Surely you understand that he had much much more competition for wickets than Imran ever had.

He wasn't injured while playing in the second series. He was injured before the third test and didn't play. Bishop was wasted as a bowler by the second series. He just failed in that series which is why he considered retirement.

 

[kyear2]

You have double standards.

You mock using context of age for Imran's stats and insist on raw average reading.

But insist on using it for Steyns stats and avoid raw reading.

Age isn't a caveat, he chose to keep playing.

And it very much is used for his batting, so still helped his legacy.

Not a person calculates what Ponting's average was before his decline. Same for Viv, and definitely not for Sobers.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

So Steyn was worse away than Ambrose and had much easier home conditions, why does he get over Ambrose?

This is just the case for introducing context to account for stats for certain bowlers and not others.

We can disagree about WSC.

Steyn played in a seriously fked up era for pace . And we don't need to disagree on the WSC because they have never and will never be considered as test stats. For goodness sake in wsc he wasn't even playing for Pakistan, he was playing for a world XI along side players from all over.

 

[subshakerz]

Age isn't a caveat, he chose to keep playing.

Except you yourself said you don't count his later years bowling or early tests.

I rate him basically from '76 to '89 period.

 

[subshakerz]

Steyn played in a seriously fked up era for pace .

Yeah but his entire home career was pace friendly. If you consider Ambrose as better away then your only grounds to rate Steyn better is because of the era he bowled?

 

[Sliferxxxx]

He wasn't injured while playing in the second series. He was injured before the third test and didn't play. Bishop was wasted as a bowler by the second series. He just failed in that series which is why he considered retirement.

He failed similarly to how Imran failed in two of 4 series in Australia. One was also good and another great. 2 fails, one great one good. Overall Good. Not great. Great is what Ambrose did in Australia.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Yeah but his entire home career was pace friendly. If you consider Ambrose as better away then your only grounds to rate Steyn better is because of the era he bowled?

Yeah the era mostly. Similar reason why I rate McGrath so highly and probably the greatest pace bowler ever.

 

[Van_Sri]

Who will Win a 5 Test Match Series between South Asia XI and West Indies XI ? - Wasim vs Marshall, Imran vs Ambrose, Bumrah vs Holding, Garner vs Murali, Sobers vs Shakib