Don't you think it's fine to rate some one who played in more varied conditions higher than someone who didn't though?? Among those 5, Trueman also does gets criticized for his away record (though you can argue it was as he was dropped often).
We are effecitvely upgrading those cricketers who played and succeeded in more locations rather than docking those who didn't.
You have to add the number of matches they missed due to injury.
Don't you think that this is one of the more important points than the ones you have listed? Isn't that the reason why Marshall/McGrath/Hadlee is rated higher than other pacers?
No, you are effectively saying the top ATG bowlers can only have played after 1980 when they played in more countries. Totally downgrading the overall skill of pre-1980 bowlers because didn't play much (if at all) in Asia
You act as if India, WI and Pakistan tours didn't exist in Lillee's time. He couldnt tour there repeatedly except for a single tour of Pakistan. It's unfortunate but then if others did and succeeded and have all his other credentials, why would I downgrade more success?No, you are effectively saying the top ATG bowlers can only have played after 1980 when they played in more countries. Totally downgrading the overall skill of pre-1980 bowlers because didn't play much (if at all) in Asia
It's almost like saying these are the best test batsmen because they are the only players to score a century against all 9 other test nations
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How often do you think Asian tours went on in the 1960s and '70s?
Yeah there were valid reasons for missing those tours, sure. But why should we rate him above the ones who did get the opportunity to prove themselves across the world and did so? Are we supposed to provide Lillee extra points for what he didn't do and downplay others?
Right so at least two to three tours of WI, two of Pakistan and one of India in his career duration. Had he played all of those, we would have had sufficient samples of SC and WI to judge him on. But for various reasons he didn't. We can't treat him like a early 20th century cricketer then, sorry.
Are you serious? Lillee had no tours of India or WI possible during his career 1971-77 and 1979-84, except for the 1973 WI tour where he broke his back
Should have bowled through it like Shane Warne in India with a broken toenail.
Would you like to share where you rate Lillee in your all time pacer's list?
Him missing those tours was for legitimate reasons but his country did have tours there in his career duration like all modern cricketers. So we treat him by the same standards except with holes in his resume that others do not.
Missing what tours? Surely you're not saying 1978 and 1979 tours were during his career duration. Lillee like all other WSC cricketers were banned from playing grade cricket never mind tests in India or WI in 1978-79. At the time all WSC players were told their Australian careers were effectively over.
Those tours happened, right? And he didn't go because he wasn't allowed to. So he missed them.
That’s not what you do though. You downgrade Lillee, including against others from not the same era, rather than singing the praises of others.
A name that should be mentioned so much more around here.
Exactly.
How do you rate VD Bijl in relation to Lillee? Vince is surely gettting less than full points for missing tests due the ban?
Yet is exactly why you rank Marshall so high.