Sachin Tendulkar vs Jacques Kallis

[capt_Luffy]

Greatness as a cricketer has little to do with practical value to the team imo. I could have a team which could demand Wasim more than McGrath (for batting, left arm variety etc), that wouldn't mean that I'd place Wasim ahead of McGrath as an overall cricketer.

Again, that is how you define Greatness. Someone can feel the value they bring to a practical mean/below mean team to be more important. Nothing wrong with that honestly.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Depends on the team I could come up with a team where Anderson is.more valuable than Kallis.

That's not a mean team really. Also bowlers and batsmen are fundamentally different in this regard.

 

[Coronis]

Yes and what they miss is that the scenarios when a 5th bowler is called upon are not key game changing ones, they are literally just a few overs in between to give a rest or if the pitch is dead. Unless your 5th bowler is actually test standard (Kallis is not) it's not a big deal at all.

The way Kallis was actively used in his actual career will never be how he will be used in an ATG setting which will be limited with four worldclass bowlers around.

But a 7/8 like you said is batting every innings and potentially stretching scores out. More critical.

Its like you’ve watched barely any cricket at all. The amount of times Kallis himself broke a partnership when the front line bowlers could not, let alone any other 4th/5th bowlers. Remind me, when Jaiswal and Pant were holding out for India in Melbourne, for 30+ overs, who broke the partnership? Was it Starc? Cummins? Boland? Lyon?

 

[sayon basak]

Again, that is how you define Greatness. Someone can feel the value they bring to a practical mean/below mean team to be more important. Nothing wrong with that honestly.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's absurd.

Wrong≠absurd.

Choose your next words wisely

 

[capt_Luffy]

Nothing wrong with that, but it's absurd.

Wrong≠absurd.

Choose your next words wisely

Bangladesh would win the next Test series in India

 

[subshakerz]

That's not a mean team really. Also bowlers and batsmen are fundamentally different in this regard.

Even for mean teams you can play around. For example, Stokes in a side effectively reduces Kallis' bowling role.

 

[subshakerz]

Its like you’ve watched barely any cricket at all. The amount of times Kallis himself broke a partnership when the front line bowlers could not, let alone any other 4th/5th bowlers. Remind me, when Jaiswal and Pant were holding out for India in Melbourne, for 30+ overs, who broke the partnership? Was it Starc? Cummins? Boland? Lyon?

Travis Head breaks a lot of partnerships. So did Tendulkar. That's my point. This role is effectively covered by part timers, having a bonafide 5th bowler like Kallis is a luxury but not a necessity unless you have a piss poor attack that he has to cover more overs than he normally would in a regular role.

Kallis was used as a 3/4th bowler in early career and progressively less and less as a regular bowler as he moved along. So it really depends how you want to value him overall.

 

[sayon basak]

Bangladesh would win the next Test series in India

It'll happen one day, and then you'll know how it feels.

 

[Coronis]

Travis Head breaks a lot of partnerships. So did Tendulkar. That's my point. This role is effectively covered by part timers, having a bonafide 5th bowler like Kallis is a luxury but not a necessity unless you have a piss poor attack that he has to cover more overs than he normally would in a regular role.

Kallis was used as a 3/4th bowler in early career and progressively less and less as a regular bowler as he moved along. So it really depends how you want to value him overall.

And Kallis broke even more. And is far more likely to in an ATG contest. Who said

 

[subshakerz]

And Kallis broke even more. And is far more likely to in an ATG contest. Who said

Highly doubt Kallis will even bowl 10 overs an innings on average for an ATG side as he would for SA nor average even 1 WPM.

And based on those few overs and wickets, you would be willing to sideline the best bat since Bradman?

 

[Coronis]

Highly doubt Kallis will even bowl 10 overs an innings on average for an ATG side as he would for SA nor average even 1 WPM.

And based on those few overs and wickets, you would be willing to sideline the best bat since Bradman?

I would not pick him over Tendulkar in an ATG XI.

If you’re picking one of these players with 10 other average players, I’ll take Kallis definitely.

 

[subshakerz]

I would not pick him over Tendulkar in an ATG XI.

If you’re picking one of these players with 10 other average players, I’ll take Kallis definitely.

That's a respectable position.

 

[sayon basak]

I would not pick him over Tendulkar in an ATG XI.

If you’re picking one of these players with 10 other average players, I’ll take Kallis definitely.

@capt_Luffy see? Both scenarios exist where one team favours Kallis and other team favours Tendulkar; so, which scenario are you gonna give more importance while assessing greatness?

 

[_00_deathscar]

It is just a matter of opinion.

I feel Kallis is not really that far behind Sachin as a batsman so his additional skills is a benefit to the team

As if your earlier statement wasn’t enough to prove you’re a dumbass, you had to double down

 

[capt_Luffy]

@capt_Luffy see? Both scenarios exist where one team favours Kallis and other team favours Tendulkar; so, which scenario are you gonna give more importance while assessing greatness?

The one for the mean/below mean team

 

[sayon basak]

The one for the mean/below mean team

I always knew you rated Shakib highly, you just didn't vote shakib to boost Jadeja's rank (just like how I excluded Jadeja lol)

I got you!!

 

[capt_Luffy]

I always knew you rated Shakib highly, you just didn't vote shakib to boost Jadeja's rank (just like how I excluded Jadeja lol)

I got you!!

I.... I dooo.... don't know wh...what you are tallll...lking abouttt

 

[sayon basak]

I.... I dooo.... don't know wh...what you are tallll...lking abouttt

I know......sh*t happens. We've all been there.

 

[Bolo.]

Again it's silly to compare a fast bowler and a bat based on career length. Your top ten cricketers would all be bats based on that.

And no Kallis' is not test specialist standard to select an extra bat in a regular XI.


Kallis doesn't become a better cricketer based on 2-3 good late career years. He was rightly rated behind those two despite being in his prime.

This isn't a batting/bowling thing. Kallis was top quality for an usually high amount of years for bats in this class and Pollock was not. Kallis averaged over 60 for close to a decade after Pollock went off the boil. Kallis was also a fast bowler. Apply the same standards to him. He averaged about 27 for nearly as long as Pollocks peak.

We have had the conversation about who was replacing him before. You wanted scorecards to prove he wasn't being replaced by bats. I gave them to you. You are ignoring the standards that you yourself defined. You proved yourself wrong, and ignore it at every possible opportunity. Just stop.

Kallis did not just have a good couple of years. He has the highest batting average this century, with the toughest home conditions, on top of bowling and slip fielding. As a pure bat, he is ahead of Sachin this century (59 vs 52 and a bunch more runs). And no, the difference between striking at 54 and 48 is not meaningful. Sachin had had a better career up to x point in his career* due to being better in the 90s, but for most of the time both played, Kallis outperformed as a player significantly.

*Not that I agree, but I don't think it's crazy to consider Sachin ahead as a player. 24 years is a long time. Kallis is way ahead on a game by game basis though.

 

[Johan]

Current England would rather have a Tendulkar than a Kallis for sure, current Australia too