Fred Trueman vs Joel Garner

[Johan]

Yeah but you don't. You are just saying things because you seem irritated.

the statement has the same level of credence and reliability as it starting in 1945 or 1965 or 1970 or 1980 or 1985 or whatever arbitrary cutoff point exists.

 

[Coronis]

Dude, what are you getting on about?? Where I said he was right or wrong for that? But I do generally dislikes players who ditch national duty for T20 Leagues.

You literally posted it as a negative for him. And a reason as to why he shouldn’t be included in an ATG team.

 

[sayon basak]

West Indies stopped producing ATG cricketers after like 1995 so that's probably when the standard of cricket improved significantly.

Or as I don't believe that cricket has not matured yet, cricket will probably mature when BD produces someone with ATG primary discipline.

 

[subshakerz]

the statement has the same level of credence and reliability as it starting in 1945 or 1965 or 1970 or 1980 or 1985 or whatever arbitrary cutoff point exists.

You have a cutoff point too.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You literally posted it as a negative for him. And a reason as to why he shouldn’t be included in an ATG team.

I posted it as a reason why his career was cut short in international level, which is a reason he isn't included in many ATG teams......

 

[sayon basak]

You literally posted it as a negative for him. And a reason as to why he shouldn’t be included in an ATG team.

It was not his argument. He said that people who downgrade him may use those logic.

 

[Line and Length]

Yeah but would there be period prehistoric enough that transplanting from then to now seems bridge too far?

Underarm and roundarm bowling definitely prehistoric. I find it difficult to rate Grace and others from his era too highly. The game definitely changed and evolved in the decade prior to WWI and that evolution continued between the wars.

 

[sayon basak]

I really think although underarm and roundarm players can be excluded from XI's, they should still be featured in the list of Greatest Cricketers.

 

[Johan]

You have a cutoff point too.

what L&L said, cut off point should be something significant to the history of game instead of some ******** double standard on when cricket starts mattering, 50s for Pakistanis and Indians, 30s for West Indies guys and so forth.

I'm sorry but y'all not subtle with what's going on.

 

[Coronis]

There is a redline, it's playing a test series. You can then only base it on what he did.

And there's no doubt he's seen as an ATG cricketer.

Where is this red line for you?

If his test series vs England was changed back to test status tomorrow (as it was when he played it) and WSC was given it's rightful dues and elevated. He then has 14 tests at 60, does that then change your mind?

Quality is quality, and a triple vs McKenzie, Lillee and Lock is just that. Taking apart a touring Aussie attack with prime Thompson is quality.

And again, I base my selections based on how good are you, and who I believe would perform the best in varied conditions.

In both categories he's right up there.

But as usual, we too shall agree to disagree.

Barnes had 13 tests and averaged 63. He also averaged 54 in FC. Didn’t play more tests like Barry due to offield reasons rather than anything to do with form or skill. ATG?

 

[subshakerz]

what L&L said, cut off point should be something significant to the history of game instead of some ******** double standard on when cricket starts mattering, 50s for Pakistanis and Indians, 30s for West Indies guys and so forth.

I'm sorry but y'all not subtle with what's going on.

Yeah but I rate earlier cricketers like Bradman, Miller, Headley and O'Reilly as all ATGs and don't question their translatability.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah but I rate 30s cricketers like Bradman, Miller, Headley and O'Reilly as all ATGs.

Miller wasn't a ****ing 30s cricketer for ****ing ****s sake!!

 

[subshakerz]

Miller wasn't a ****ing 30s cricketer for ****ing ****s sake!!

Dude you caught me just as I corrected myself.

 

[sayon basak]

Miller wasn't a ****ing 30s cricketer for ****ing ****s sake!!

He is. It's her choice.


As I said, Love is love.

 

[Line and Length]

I really think although underarm and roundarm players can be excluded from XI's, they should still be featured in the list of Greatest Cricketers.

Include them among a list of Greatest Cricketers by all means, but does their skill set make them ATGs

 

[Johan]

Yeah but I rate 30s cricketers like Bradman, Miller, Headley and O'Reilly as all ATGs and don't question their translatability.

the same 30s cricketers saw Hobbs, some (Hammond) even played with Hobbs and they all rated him as the best after Bradman, he literally played alongside and against some of the premier cricketers of 30s like Larwood and Hammond and OUTPERFORMED them.

 

[sayon basak]

Include them among a list of Greatest Cricketers by all means, but does their skill set make them ATGs

Did I ever say that it does?


And just to be clear, it had been more than 40 years since overarm bowling was legalized when Hobbs started.

 

[Line and Length]

Did I ever say that it does?


And just to be clear, it had been more than 40 years since overarm bowling was legalized for Hobbs.

I was simply supporting your claim that they deserved to be included in lists of Greatest Cricketers.

As for your second statement, this is very true. Bowlers such as Spofforth introduced real pace to bowling.

 

[sayon basak]

I was simply supporting your claim that they deserved to be included in lists of Greatest Cricketers.

As for your second statement, this is very true. Bowlers such as Spofforth introduced real pace to bowling.

And I agree with your agreement.

 

[subshakerz]

the same 30s cricketers saw Hobbs, some (Hammond) even played with Hobbs and they all rated him as the best after Bradman, he literally played alongside and against some of the premier cricketers of 30s like Larwood and Hammond and OUTPERFORMED them.

Sure I concede those arguments on peer rating which is why Hobbs was originally always in my side. I have only recently wobbled on my confidence of the reliability of the bulk of his work, my friend.