Gary Sobers vs Steven Smith

[DrWolverine]

I know Sachin faced McGrath, Steyn & Murali.

But the hype of Sachin vs Warne in 1998 was unreal.

 

[subshakerz]

I was watching the match today and thinking we are witnessing a duel between ARUGUABLY the best batsman & best fast bowler in the last 80 years.

Frankly I thought the Kohli Anderson duel in 2018 was better. Two greats at their best.

 

[sayon basak]

I was watching the match today and thinking we are witnessing a duel between ARUGUABLY the best batsman & best fast bowler in the last 80 years.

You already rate Bumrah that high?

 

[DrWolverine]

You already rate Bumrah that high?

Is he the best ever? No
Does he have the potential to be the best ever? Yes

 

[sayon basak]

Is he the best ever? No
Does he have the potential to be the best ever? Yes

Ok I agree with this.

 

[DrWolverine]

Ok I agree with this.

@kyear2 wrote a post in another thread.

Pretty much every top 10 bowler has some drawback(McGrath, Warne, Hadlee, Ambrose, Steyn, Donald, Imran, Lillee, Murali) have drawback in their record.

For now Bumrah seems to have a flawless record except against NZ which he can correct when he plays another series against/in NZ.

 

[Johan]

Give up checklisting

 

[Johan]

@DrWolverine arguments for Smith over Sobers

 

[capt_Luffy]

@DrWolverine arguments for Smith over Sobers

I don't buy Smith>Sobers at all, but there are a few arguments imo:
1) Sobers tended to bat significantly lower down the order than Smith
2) Sobers has a glaring weakness in his record vs New Zealand, over 4 separate series
3) Smith played in more varied conditions, arguably
4) Smith had the better batting peak
5) Sobers' away average removing India/Pakistan is 45. Not bad by any stretch, but on the lower side for his stature

 

[Johan]

I don't buy Smith>Sobers at all, but there are a few arguments imo:
1) Sobers tended to bat significantly lower down the order than Smith
2) Sobers has a glaring weakness in his record vs New Zealand, over 4 separate series
3) Smith played in more varied conditions, arguably
4) Smith had the better batting peak
5) Sobers' away average removing India/Pakistan is 45. Not bad by any stretch, but on the lower side for his stature

imo if you're gonna remove Ind and Pak you should also remove NZ as they were even worse, if anything, I can think of more good Indian/Pakistani bowlers from that timeframe than Kiwi ones!

 

[Sliferxxxx]

imo if you're gonna remove Ind and Pak you should also remove NZ as they were even worse, if anything, I can think of more good Indian/Pakistani bowlers from that timeframe than Kiwi ones!

Yeah removing India and pakistan away but not NZ makes no sense.

 

[kyear2]

imo if you're gonna remove Ind and Pak you should also remove NZ as they were even worse, if anything, I can think of more good Indian/Pakistani bowlers from that timeframe than Kiwi ones!

Yeah, it's kind of a selective removal.

And basically all you said.

No reason why the two ROW tours also shouldn't be counted as tests.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Fwiw Sobers without the minnows away played:

31 mts and 57 innings and averaged 46 in Aus and 54 in Eng for an overall average of 51. Perfectly acceptable.

 

[kyear2]

Fwiw Sobers without the minnows away played:

31 mts and 57 innings and averaged 46 in Aus and 54 in Eng for an overall average of 51. Perfectly acceptable.

India can't remotely be seen as minnows though, not with those spinners

 

[Sliferxxxx]

India can't remotely be seen as minnows though, not with those spinners

And not with their results. Maybe below test standard or weaker ala England in the 90s or current WI but minnows nope. And even those teams were better than current WI probably.

 

[kyear2]

And not with their results. Maybe below test standard or weaker ala England in the 90s or current WI but minnows nope. And even those teams were better than current WI probably.

That was more due to their batting though, the bowling was plenty test standard.

And most teams outside of 2000's Zim & Bang, 30's NZ, 80's SL and some others that don't come to mind are better than the current WI team.

 

[capt_Luffy]

imo if you're gonna remove Ind and Pak you should also remove NZ as they were even worse, if anything, I can think of more good Indian/Pakistani bowlers from that timeframe than Kiwi ones!

I exactly removed them only so I can manipulate the data though...... I already made a point on NZ. Though I think a player should atleast perform on par to his quality against Minnows as well. So yeah, saying IND/Pak with weaker bowling boosts his average should be an acceptable statement.

 

[Coronis]

Players that average 50+ away from home since 2015 (min 20 innings)

Steve Smith 3935 @ 56.21 14 tons (Root has 15 but in 50 more innings)

Nobody else

(Brook has an away average of 80 rn with 19 innings - all in Pakistan and NZ tbf, a duck in his 20th innings would see it fall to 76)

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Players that average 50+ away from home since 2015 (min 20 innings)

Steve Smith 3935 @ 56.21

Nobody else

(Brook has an away average of 80 rn with 19 innings - all in Pakistan and NZ tbf, a duck in his 20th innings would see it fall to 76)

KW averages 50 away and 68 neutral since Oct 1 2013 I think. (Obviously not as impressive as Smiths record though)

 

[sayon basak]

Players that average 50+ away from home since 2015 (min 20 innings)

Steve Smith 3935 @ 56.21 14 tons (Root has 15 but in 50 more innings)

Nobody else

(Brook has an away average of 80 rn with 19 innings - all in Pakistan and NZ tbf, a duck in his 20th innings would see it fall to 76)

Joe Root and Kane Williamson comes close.

Kane Williamson: 2358 runs @49.12; 7 centuries.
Joe Root: 5841 runs @49.08; 15 centuries.