Curtly Ambrose vs Dale Steyn

[sayon basak]

Then @kyear2 is right.

Bradman. Sobers. Marshall.
Easily the first picks when I pick an ATG team

I think Adam Gilchrist comes ahead of any bowler while picking AT XI tbh.

 

[DrWolverine]

I think Adam Gilchrist comes ahead of any bowler while picking AT XI tbh.

I honestly don’t mind picking a pure wicket keeper like Alan Knott and dropping Gilly.

Highly unpopular opinion : I can pick Andy Flower at number 5 and then pick both Gary Sobers at number 6 and Imran Khan at number 7. Not saying I will pick him but it is not such an outrageous pick - 3501 runs in 74 inn @ 56 with 9 tons and 19 fifties.

Yes Gilchrist is a top pick but with the way Test cricket is being played I wouldn’t be surprised if we can get a better WK batsman in the future.

 

[Johan]

5 is for Viv, another player with no flaws in his record.

 

[DrWolverine]

Or Steven Smith

He has no flaws in his record as well

 

[sayon basak]

I honestly don’t mind picking a pure wicket keeper like Alan Knott and dropping Gilly.

Really think the gap between Gilchrist and Knott as a WK-bat is bigger than the gap between Marshall and Hadlee/McGrath.

Yes Gilchrist is a top pick but with the way Test cricket is being played I wouldn’t be surprised if we can get a better WK batsman in the future.

Good luck!

 

[DrWolverine]

Really think the gap between Gilchrist and Knott as a WK-bat is bigger than the gap between Marshall and Hadlee/McGrath.

True.

I already have 6 batting legends including Don Bradman so if someone wants to select a proper wicket keeper instead of Gilly I can see their reason..

 

[capt_Luffy]

Then @kyear2 is right.

Bradman. Sobers. Marshall.
Easily the first picks when I pick an ATG team

I would pick both Hobbs and Tendulkar before Marshall tbf, alongside Gilchrist.

 

[sayon basak]

I would pick both Hobbs and Tendulkar before Marshall tbf, alongside Gilchrist.

But but era......garbage pitch......blah blah.

 

[Johan]

I don't know how one can downplay Hobbs/Viv/Tendu tbh

 

[kyear2]

Then @kyear2 is right.

Bradman. Sobers. Marshall.
Easily the first picks when I pick an ATG team

Yes, for an AT XI definitely my first three picks, but even outside of that.

If I can only have one player from the past to add to any team, it has to be one of those three. The best batsman ever, the best bowler ever, or the best all rounder.

Even for an AT XI, I'm sure some might say Gilchrist, but he was always the cherry on top of the sundae, he was never going to be the choice over Punter or McWarne. Not to mention that in a team with this batting talent, many may just prefer the best pure keeper, as Wisden did.

Bradman and Sobers are the obvious one and two. Bradman your best bat and the alpha at three, Sobers the three in one player that's impossible to ignore and second best player.
Third has to be your opening strike bowler, and who else brings everything that you're looking for as described in the previous post. He's also the only bowler who's assured of a spot on the team. And who's picking a third batsman when the greatest bowler ever is available.

So yeah, for an AT XI, but even more so if one player from the past to travel the world and succeed for any team, one can't get past those 3 options.

 

[kyear2]

Marshall I guess.

Yeah.

 

[kyear2]

I would pick both Hobbs and Tendulkar before Marshall tbf, alongside Gilchrist.

If you're building a team you're selecting a 3rd and 4th batsman and the wicket keeper before selecting the opening pacer.

Or if you could only select one player from the past for any team, Tendulkar isn't a consideration because Bradman is already there, Gilchrist is one of your 3 options as well?

I guess pacers are the most important players until they're not.

 

[kyear2]

Really think the gap between Gilchrist and Knott as a WK-bat is bigger than the gap between Marshall and Hadlee/McGrath.

Good luck!

Which position is it more important to get the better option though?

 

[capt_Luffy]

If you're building a team you're selecting a 3rd and 4th batsman and the wicket keeper before selecting the opening pacer.

Or if you could only select one player from the past for any team, Tendulkar isn't a consideration because Bradman is already there, Gilchrist is one of your 3 options as well?

I guess pacers are the most important players until they're not.

I was talking more about the "sure shots" on my team. I won't loose largely by taking McGrath for instance, but can't see me leaving Hobbs or Gilly in any scenario.

 

[kyear2]

I was talking more about the "sure shots" on my team. I won't loose largely by taking McGrath for instance, but can't see me leaving Hobbs or Gilly in any scenario.

I'll leave this alone, just suffice to say, for me Marshall may even be the 2nd name on the sheet, because he was the complete bowler in a way that no one else can provide
The same way you have Hobbs over Hutton. And my opening bowler is more important to my team that already has Bradman and Sobers on board than a 3rd bat.

Gilchrist as good as he was, isn't the perfect keeping option, nor is he someone, as @Prince EWS has opined in the past, someone that would might count on to light the world afire in this level of competition.

None of them rise to the importance of your strike bowler who has the capacity to blow out, out skill with swing, intimidate or slow down and use cutters to dismiss the opposition.

But as usual, we can agree to disagree.

 

[Coronis]

Yes Gilchrist is a top pick but with the way Test cricket is being played I wouldn’t be surprised if we can get a better WK batsman in the future.

Looks like Gilly has become underrated.

 

[subshakerz]

Looks like Gilly has become underrated.

Gilly is just too ideally suited as a no.7 counterattacked to be ignored. His keeping is tested enough against top pace and spin to not be any sort of liability and he can handle both roles and already demonstrated being an add-on value to an ATG side.

 

[debraj72]

Ambrose:10 5Ws and 1 10Ws in 46 away matches(excluding dead rubber)
Steyn:10 5Ws and 2 10WS in 41 away matches
Slight advantage to steyn.
I think,one important aspect of Ambrose's career was how much he helped his side whenever they defended any 200 or lower than 200 target in 4th innings.By my manual analysis,he took 19 wickets from 12 innings, average 14.73.(4w 1D 7l, excluding dead rubber),whereas Steyn took 2 wickets from 3 innings,average 44.5(2l 1D).Now I know,ambose played an absurd level of matches in west indies/Australia/England.so this is very close in my opinion.Apologies in advance,if i have committed any grammatical mistake

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ambrose:10 5Ws and 1 10Ws in 46 away matches(excluding dead rubber)
Steyn:10 5Ws and 2 10WS in 41 away matches
Slight advantage to steyn.
I think,one important aspect of Ambrose's career was how much he helped his side whenever they defended any 200 or lower than 200 target in 4th innings.By my manual analysis,he took 19 wickets from 12 innings, average 14.73.(4w 1D 7l, excluding dead rubber),whereas Steyn took 2 wickets from 3 innings,average 44.5(2l 1D).Now I know,ambose played an absurd level of matches in west indies/Australia/England.so this is very close in my opinion.Apologies in advance,if i have committed any grammatical mistake

 

[pardus]

Ambrose:10 5Ws and 1 10Ws in 46 away matches(excluding dead rubber)
Steyn:10 5Ws and 2 10WS in 41 away matches
Slight advantage to steyn.
I think,one important aspect of Ambrose's career was how much he helped his side whenever they defended any 200 or lower than 200 target in 4th innings.By my manual analysis,he took 19 wickets from 12 innings, average 14.73.(4w 1D 7l, excluding dead rubber),whereas Steyn took 2 wickets from 3 innings,average 44.5(2l 1D).Now I know,ambose played an absurd level of matches in west indies/Australia/England.so this is very close in my opinion.Apologies in advance,if i have committed any grammatical mistake

4 of Steyn's 10 away-5W-hauls came in Zimbabwe, West Indies and Sri Lanka (relatively minnows). And in one of the Sri Lanka innings where Steyn took 5 wickets, he went for 6+ runs per over (at one point Steyn's figures were 8 overs 0 maidens 64 runs and 1 wicket - and this was a Test match). Sri Lankan batsmen were just going for their shots in that innings, even Ntini went for some runs (not as bad as Steyn though). It was their recklessness more than Steyn's skills, at least in that innings that got Steyn a 5W haul.

All of Ambrose's away-5W-hauls came in Australia, England, Pakistan and South Africa.
Most of them, top Test sides of the time.
Ambrose played just 1 Test match in Sri Lanka, and 0 Tests in Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.
West Indies side of 80s and 90s rarely played against minnows of that era.