Imran Khan vs Barry Richards

[Coronis]

You cant even pretend Barry would have 100 percent achieved that, it's pure speculation, so using peer rating against someone with an actual ATG career is pointless.

So yeah, objectively Barry Richards.

Looks like pure objectivity actually

 

[kyear2]

One is different from the rest though
Barry : 4 Tests
Viv : 121 Tests
Lara : 131 Tests
Sachin : 200 Tests

The premise of the ****ing thread was red ball cricket.

And again, for the love of God, it said peer rating, not yours.

 

[sayon basak]

This will be a great thread. Will be interesting to see who takes it.

 

[smash84]

The only other vote for Barry comes from HB. I wonder if it's a troll vote.

 

[subshakerz]

The premise of the ****ing thread was red ball cricket.

Dude that was meant for bait which you took obviously.

 

[kyear2]

I am as big a champion of peer rating as any on the forum, but I never accepted that it can replace an entire international career.

Not to state the obvious, but achieving ATG success is up to talent and temperament but also luck and many factors.

You cant even pretend Barry would have 100 percent achieved that, it's pure speculation, so using peer rating against someone with an actual ATG career is pointless.

This is the idiocy that's being brought up when looking specially at the thread in question.

This thread is literally about peer rating and specifically for red ball cricket.

And as I said, as a cricketer most do place Imran ahead, I would as well.

In the other post you say I pick and choose, I looked at rankings and articles introduced by others into the forum and picked out the ones that was agrees wasn't nonsense.

Gower rated him 15th

CMJ 28th

Crowe initially rated him the best modern opener then for his later book / article replaced him with Gavaskar, through still paced him in his second team.
For the record

1st.
Hobbs | Gavaskar | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Wasim | Marshall | Warne | Lillee

2nd
Richards | Trumper | Headley | Lara | Chappell | Imran | Knott | Hadlee | Warne | Trueman | O'Reilly | Muralitharan

Bradman, who also called O'Reilly the best bowler he ever saw, and Sachin the one that reminded him of himself called Richards the best opener he ever saw.

Dickie Bird called him the best he ever saw, Lillee called him, and I'm paraphrasing, batting perfection.

His fc records vs test playing nations is something like 75, his WSC record was the best of that iteration, his fc record vs the best test bowlers of his era was unmatched, he scored a triple hundred in a day vs an attack with Lillee, took apart Thompson in his actual prime, scored 9 hundreds before lunch and both Procter and Pollock called him the best they've seen. He scored doubles vs Procter, Lillee and Snow and kept this up for over a decade. Within that decade he partnered with Greenidge, no doubt one of the top 4 modern openers and no thought the was his better.

He made the Cricinfo All Time 2nd XI ahead of all but Hobbs and Hutton and along with Gavaskar, Nicholas takes it a step further and elevates both to his first team. Do you grasp that? Cricinfo, put together two XIs of the 20th century for test cricket and he made the 2nd XI with Sunny, Imran, Lara, O'Reilly and Muralitharan? But this is just me right?

He could do things no one else could, he performed at his best vs the very best, and the manufactured narrative that this is just my opinion and not something that's accepted in the cricket fraternity and establishment is a special kind of denialism.

I did not start this thread, but the answer to it is ridiculously clear and obvious if responded to in the way it was asked. To be frank, even if it wasn't.

 

[Coronis]

Fun fact to also note,

Imran’s first class career - 69/70-91/92 (age 17-39)
Barry’s first class career - 64/65-82/83 (with a 3.5 year gap from 78-81/82) (age 19-36)

 

[honestbharani]

Dude that was meant for bait which you took obviously.

Pity vote. I am not too fussed about rating cricketers I have not seen in any absolute manner. Its unfortunate as he never had the chance to play test cricket and it was not his fault. And I love aggressive batsmen who can also score big runs. But I also understand he never played at the highest level enough to be rated over other greats.

 

[sayon basak]

 

[kyear2]

Dude that was meant for bait which you took obviously.

Really don't care what it is. Barry's batting was rated higher than Imran's bowling.

I would like you to present me with any anecdotal, written articles or any evidence or opinion that speaks to the opposite.

Just batting vs bowling.

I can present you with multiple articles with him being referenced as the best batsman of his era, comparable to Viv and Sobers, heck even called the best since Bradman.

Can you do the same?

Simple request.

 

[subshakerz]

This thread is literally about peer rating and specifically for red ball cricket.

It's not. It's about who is better. It's about performance.

And if you claim to not give preference to international cricket in evaluating red ball performance, you are just lying.

If all the old foggies rate Barry that high, that's enough maybe to claim he would be a great cricketer had he played. But it's not guarantee of ATG performance so he shouldn't be rated that high. You cant base a career that on speculation which is what they are doing. It's not like Barry averaged 70 plus in first class that we have that much of a guarantee of a transition.

And as we have established, it's not the first time peers/pundits have for various reasons vastly inflated someone's reputation due to circumstances. Lillee, Qadir, others. Barry too it seems.

 

[subshakerz]

Really don't care what it is. Barry's batting was rated higher than Imran's bowling.

I would like you to present me with any anecdotal, written articles or any evidence or opinion that speaks to the opposite.

Just batting vs bowling.

I can present you with multiple articles with him being referenced as the best batsman of his era, comparable to Viv and Sobers, heck even called the best since Bradman.

Can you do the same?

Simple request.

Simple question: is peer rating sufficient for you to make an ATG even if it means that cricketer never played international cricket?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Fun fact to also note,

Imran’s first class career - 69/70-91/92 (age 17-39)
Barry’s first class career - 64/65-82/83 (with a 3.5 year gap from 78-81/82) (age 19-36)

So like without ban, Barry would have had an 8 year long career.....

 

[capt_Luffy]

Simple question: is peer rating sufficient for you to make an ATG even if it means that cricketer never played international cricket?

Simpler question will be if that's what all counts, how come Marshall is over Lillee??

 

[smash84]

Simpler question will be if that's what all counts, how come Marshall is over Lillee??

You beat me to it.

Lillee is easily greater than Marshall if we go with peer rating. In fact he might the greatest fast bowler ever if we go just by peer rating.

Marshall would likely rank even below Wasim in peer rating.

 

[subshakerz]

Simpler question will be if that's what all counts, how come Marshall is over Lillee??

Good point. Apparently for Barry, he is willing to go on peer rating with steroids but not for other cricketers (who are his favorites).

 

[Coronis]

So like without ban, Barry would have had an 8 year long career.....

I also find it interesting to note that he only played 1 full season of county cricket.

 

[sayon basak]

Peer ratings can be stupid at times. I've heard many people rate Qadir above Warne; and my father is one of them.

 

[Coronis]

Peer ratings can be stupid at times. I've heard many people rate Qadir above Warne; and my father is one of them.

Did you tell your father it was a stupid take?

 

[smash84]

Peer ratings can be stupid at times. I've heard many people rate Qadir above Warne; and my father is one of them.

Yes, Abdul Qadir is one who has a ridiculously high peer rating without having any half decent body of work to support it.