England players and selection discussion thread

[flibbertyjibber]

No problem with Flintoff getting picked. He is obviously a huge talent and did well for under 19s so this is a natural progression for him. I'm sure his dad wasn't the only selector picking this squad.

We have moaned for years about not giving talented young players a chance at the next level so why moan now when we pick a 16 year old with so much talent?

Was he picked by Lancashire simply because of his name or his ability?

 

[morgieb]

It's interesting that so many young talents in England are the kid of a famous cricketer. You've got Rocky Flintoff (who also has a brother in the Lancashire system), Archie Vaughan, Josh de Caires, Luc Benkenstein, and no doubt a couple of others who are around too. Then o/c from older generations there's the Currans, Stuart Broad, etc. In Australia I can't really think of any "kids of famous cricketers" who cracked it in recent years other than the Marsh's (though Jayden Goodwin has a lot of talent). You could say it's down to the lack of appeal with cricket amongst working-classes in England but it's still interesting to watch.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Whilst the rather more deserving Archie Vaughan didn't get a pick.

Good to see Bashir and Tongue on the trip though, realistically the only players in the squad likely to be in the Ashes squad.

Was Vaughan not picked as he is more of a spinner than a bat and we had lots of spinners already?

Probably unlucky to miss out but do we know if he was even available as he might be at university anyway which could come into it with players so young.

 

[GIMH]

I actually respect Josh de Caires for not playing as Josh Atherton but I am sure his connections also helped him

It would be a bit weird if he did play as Josh Atherton given it’s not his name

 

[kevinw]

Was Vaughan not picked as he is more of a spinner than a bat and we had lots of spinners already?

Probably unlucky to miss out but do we know if he was even available as he might be at university anyway which could come into it with players so young.

He opens for Somerset. Yes he's taken wickets in his FC games so far but also averages 30+ with the bat. Flintoff Jr probably does have potential but he's three years younger than Vaughan and hasn't scored any meaningful FC runs yet. I don't think the Lions should be an under 19s side. If we suddenly got a spate of injuries with the bat who would be next in line? Those guys should be on the Lions tour.

 

[grecian]

It's interesting that so many young talents in England are the kid of a famous cricketer. You've got Rocky Flintoff (who also has a brother in the Lancashire system), Archie Vaughan, Josh de Caires, Luc Benkenstein, and no doubt a couple of others who are around too. Then o/c from older generations there's the Currans, Stuart Broad, etc. In Australia I can't really think of any "kids of famous cricketers" who cracked it in recent years other than the Marsh's (though Jayden Goodwin has a lot of talent). You could say it's down to the lack of appeal with cricket amongst working-classes in England but it's still interesting to watch.

Said for years so many of our players are one of Posh, Forn or related. Or a combo of a few of 'em.

It's a depressing pool in some ways, but I've learnt to live with it.

 

[GirthQuake]

It's interesting that so many young talents in England are the kid of a famous cricketer. You've got Rocky Flintoff (who also has a brother in the Lancashire system), Archie Vaughan, Josh de Caires

Googling tells me this is Atherton's spawn. What's up with the surname?

 

[Molehill]

Googling tells me this is Atherton's spawn. What's up with the surname?

It's his mother's maiden name. I'm not sure why they gave him that name and it seems neither is he.

He is the son of former England cricketer Michael Atherton, and the great-grandson of former West Indian cricketer Frank de Caires. De Caires says that he has rarely seen his father batting, as he was born eight months after Atherton's last Test match. He was given his mother's maiden name, but does not know why.

 

[Betterpolo]

Not enough batsmen and too many bowlers

England Lions squad for tour of Australia: Baker Sonny (Hampshire), Shoaib Bashir (Somerset), Pat Brown (Derbyshire), James Coles (Sussex), Sam Cook (Essex), Alex Davies (Warwickshire), Rocky Flintoff (Lancashire), Tom Hartley (Lancashire), Tom Lawes (Surrey), Freddie McCann (Nottinghamshire). Ben McKinney (Durham), James Rew (Somerset), Hamza Shaikh (Warwickshire), Mitch Stanley (Lancashire), Josh Tongue (Nottinghamshire), John Turner (Hampshire)

Lancs - Flintoff, Hartley, Stanley
Yorks - 0

Shaikh is a batsman but this hardly negates your point. The top six look pretty well pencilled in for the three games don't they? I suspect that the bowlers will be rotated around and, at least for the Aus XI games, we'll see the same 15-a-side format we saw in South Africa.

Looking at the whole winter it's great to see so much effort put into the Lions. They do seem to have gone for a wide church approach though, giving a wide range of players a touring experience and presumably looking or those who look like they've got that extra quality. I think I'd prefer a tighter squad based more on next-in-line players and more intensive matches. A match against the touring Zimbabweans would be good too although not sure if that would fit into the calendar.

 

[Betterpolo]

People who've seen Rocky Flintoff play speak highly of his talent but we all know he's benefited from his name. It really goes without saying.

I actually respect Josh de Caires for not playing as Josh Atherton but I am sure his connections also helped him

The best thing about this is that if Atherton had pursued a career as a novelist instead of a cricketer this is just the sort of nom-de-plume he would love to have used.

 

[Chubb]

It's his mother's maiden name. I'm not sure why they gave him that name and it seems neither is he.

He is the son of former England cricketer Michael Atherton, and the great-grandson of former West Indian cricketer Frank de Caires. De Caires says that he has rarely seen his father batting, as he was born eight months after Atherton's last Test match. He was given his mother's maiden name, but does not know why.

The de Caires are a very prominent family in Guyana. Atherton wrote a piece about his father in law once. Not sure if his wife has brothers, it may be they decided to use it to continue the surname, I really don’t know though it’s just a guess.

 

[Molehill]

The de Caires are a very prominent family in Guyana. Atherton wrote a piece about his father in law once. Not sure if his wife has brothers, it may be they decided to use it to continue the surname, I really don’t know though it’s just a guess.

Yeah, I vaguely remember reading something similar when young de Caires arrived on the County scene.

 

[Betterpolo]

I can't believe I didn't know Atherton was related to a West Indian cricketer...

 

[Stefan9]

Looks like Zak is safe.

x.com

x.com

 

[kevinw]

Looks like Zak is safe.

x.com

x.com

His dad probably pays Brendan's and Bob's salaries.

 

[FBU]

Looks like Zak is safe.

x.com

x.com

Could just mean his 6'5 height

Found this more interesting

@Wessy_x


Now that Ravichandran Ashwin has retired, let's see how Joe Root fared against him over the years in Test matches:
Root vs Ashwin (Overall): 437 runs @ 62.4
Root vs Ashwin (In India): 366 runs @ 61

 

[Blenkinsop]

Yeah I don't understand why Rocky Flintoff has been picked ahead of Archie Vaughan. Also baffles me why Emilio Gay can't get a game for the Lions. Also who tf is Mitch Stanley?

 

[kevinw]

Yeah I don't understand why Rocky Flintoff has been picked ahead of Archie Vaughan. Also baffles me why Emilio Gay can't get a game for the Lions. Also who tf is Mitch Stanley?

Mitch Stanley is 23 and never played a FC game. Are you telling me if Carse and Atkinson get crocked, he's going to get a call up?

 

[FBU]

Mitch Stanley is 23 and never played a FC game. Are you telling me if Carse and Atkinson get crocked, he's going to get a call up?

He is always getting injured. Another strange selection is Pat Brown, f/c average 56.53. If Carse or Atkinson get injured it will be Tongue who would called up.

 

[Prince EWS]

Flintoff picks his son for the Lions squad. Of course.