**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests

[Fuller Pilch]

We're prolonging the inevitable with him. They will either give up eventually or he will be a new challenger for worst player to play 100 tests. Tom Latham is about to take that 'crown'.

Latham is still better than Bairstow, but I don't think Latham will reach 100 anyway due to the emergence of Rhys Mariu who is averaging 70 in 1st class cricket.

 

[wpdavid]

Pope. Bethell arguably needs to develop at going big first though. I'd have given Bohannon a chance by now but they're not interested in players with modest strike rates.

Unfortunately Bohannon's CC average in 2024 wasn't anything to write home about, never mind his strike rate.
The top 6 are a tough call for next summer. Smith did well at 6 or 7, so I don't understand the rush from some folks to bat him at 3. But I do think he should be in the side. So it comes down to Pope vs Bethell at 3. I know that Pope has been in situ for ages, but we have seen regulars be pushed if they feel the time is right. And Pope has been trying everyone's patience for a while now. As for Crawley, who knows. I have nfi who could open instead of him, unless they fancy a punt on the wonder-kid from Durham whose name escapes me.

 

[BazBall21]

Unfortunately Bohannon's CC average in 2024 wasn't anything to write home about, never mind his strike rate.
The top 6 are a tough call for next summer. Smith did well at 6 or 7, so I don't understand the rush from some folks to bat him at 3. But I do think he should be in the side. So it comes down to Pope vs Bethell at 3. I know that Pope has been in situ for ages, but we have seen regulars be pushed if they feel the time is right. And Pope has been trying everyone's patience for a while now. As for Crawley, who knows. I have nfi who could open instead of him, unless they fancy a punt on the wonder-kid from Durham whose name escapes me.

His form is irrelevant because he's never getting picked by this regime as someone who would have a Test strike rate of about 45 if he played his natural game.

 

[BazBall21]

Latham is still better than Bairstow, but I don't think he'll reach 100 anyway due to the emergence of Rhys Mariu who is averaging 70 in 1st class cricket.

Bairstow was a good wicket keeper before the leg break and an above average batsman relative to most wicket keepers in both the modern era and historically.

Latham isn't a good opener in the conditions where specialist openers are needed. I would look at different options if I was an NZ selector.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Unfortunately Bohannon's CC average in 2024 wasn't anything to write home about, never mind his strike rate.
The top 6 are a tough call for next summer. Smith did well at 6 or 7, so I don't understand the rush from some folks to bat him at 3. But I do think he should be in the side. So it comes down to Pope vs Bethell at 3. I know that Pope has been in situ for ages, but we have seen regulars be pushed if they feel the time is right. And Pope has been trying everyone's patience for a while now. As for Crawley, who knows. I have nfi who could open instead of him, unless they fancy a punt on the wonder-kid from Durham whose name escapes me.

McKinney? I might give him Zimbabwe next year, but I wouldn’t throw him in the side for India and Aus, plus Crawley should do well on hard bouncy wickets. Bethell vs Pope will be interesting, Stokes hasn’t thrown Pope under the bus by saying he’s a dead man walking, but Pope did look better down the order (where, unfortunately for him, we don’t have a vacancy unless Stokes is unfit), and Bethell, for all the undue praise for some, well, not even starts really in the first innings, he did manage to last longer than the median Pope innings at 3. Stokes’ long-term fitness to bowl adds another spanner in the works too, I have no idea how they’ll configure the team with a lack of batting all-rounders (although we now have some really strong lower-order hitters)

 

[kevinw]

Bairstow was a good wicket keeper before the leg break and an above average batsman relative to most wicket keepers in both the modern era and historically.

Latham isn't a good opener in the conditions where specialist openers are needed. I would look at different options if I was an NZ selector.

Latham is the same level as Elgar, about the same as Karunaratne (or maybe both are a smidge down on the Sri Lankan). But how many really good openers have there been over the last decade? The fag end of Warner's career. Rohit is a home bully. I'd put Latham above YJB as a test bat, easily.

 

[Moss]

Bairstow was a good wicket keeper before the leg break and an above average batsman relative to most wicket keepers in both the modern era and historically.

Latham isn't a good opener in the conditions where specialist openers are needed. I would look at different options if I was an NZ selector.

While I think Latham over the full course of his career is a bit better than you give him credit for (he’s arguably as good if not better than Karunaratne, and definitely better than Brathwaite - both of whom are nearing 100 tests), I do agree he’s been below par in the last couple of years; that average has dropped to 38 after being on the right side of 40 almost always.

NZ would really get more out of him for the rest of his career as a middle order bat, where his ease against spin would help. Except he isn’t even NZ’s biggest opening headache at the moment.

 

[BazBall21]

Latham is the same level as Elgar, about the same as Karunaratne (or maybe both are a smidge down on the Sri Lankan). But how many really good openers have there been over the last decade? The fag end of Warner's career. Rohit is a home bully. I'd put Latham above YJB as a test bat, easily.

Bairstow was fine in his secondary skill set (Tom has never kept-wicket or bowled etc in tests) for a long time until he broke his leg. I rate him as a better Test cricketer than Latham.

I also think the standard of top 3 batsmen has been affected by T20's increasing grip on the sport (middle order batsmen less so), so not sure Latham should take many brownie points for there not being that much else in terms of openers. For what it's worth, I would have Warner, Khawaja, Elgar, Karunaratne, Rohit and Brathwaite over him. They are all contemporaries and that's a decent chunk of players.

 

[BazBall21]

While I think Latham over the full course of his career is a bit better than you give him credit for (he’s arguably as good if not better than Karunaratne, and definitely better than Brathwaite - both of whom are nearing 100 tests), I do agree he’s been below par in the last couple of years; that average has dropped to 38 after being on the right side of 40 almost always.

NZ would really get more out of him for the rest of his career as a middle order bat, where his ease against spin would help. Except he isn’t even NZ’s biggest opening headache at the moment.

Good player of spin. I think NZ fans have an attachment as he has been a good servant in both formats and opening always seems to be an area of difficulty for them like no3 is for England.

 

[Betterpolo]

Pope. Bethell arguably needs to develop at going big first though. I'd have given Bohannon a chance by now but they're not interested in players with modest strike rates.

Yes, only chance Bohannon has got is sheer weight of runs and maybe not even then. Had an excellent 22-23 but this past summer wasn't quite at the same level.

Of course it wasn't all that long ago that even this didn't warrant a single cap

 

[Betterpolo]

Good summary Langley. I only saw pre-lunch sessions really but Pope kept surprisingly well and his two fifties were tough ones and very important. Don't know if that warrants a 7. Brook is going to want to address a home/away average gap of 42 (!) runs but he'll get plenty of opportunity to do so.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Good player of spin. I think NZ fans have an attachment as he has been a good servant in both formats and opening always seems to be an area of difficulty for them like no3 is for England.

I don't think any NZ fans are "attached" to Latham we just look at our history of openers and accept that he's as good as we've had in a long time even if he has massive holes in his record.

 

[hendrix]

Latham has been an above average opener most of his career.

Last couple of years not so.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Bairstow was fine in his secondary skill set (Tom has never kept-wicket or bowled etc in tests)

Re secondary skills, Latham is a world class slip fielder (unfortunately wasn't in this series!!) and has captained to series wins in England and India.

I'd still like to see him dropped for Rhys Mariu though.

 

[BazBall21]

Re secondary skills, Latham is a world class slip fielder (unfortunately wasn't in this series!!) and has captained to series wins in England and India.

I'd still like to see him dropped for Rhys Mariu though.

I think quality slip fielding is a more common and dispensable attribute. He is very good in there most of the time. I never take captaincy into account heavily, especially as he doesn't have a broad sample size there.

 

[BazBall21]

I don't think any NZ fans are "attached" to Latham we just look at our history of openers and accept that he's as good as we've had in a long time even if he has massive holes in his record.

Attached is the wrong word. I'm saying they should contemplate other options outside Asia, and perhaps there's a reluctance to do that out of fear.

 

[hendrix]

Attached is the wrong word. I'm saying they should contemplate other options outside Asia, and perhaps there's a reluctance to do that out of fear.

Oh believe me if there was a batsman knocking the door down NZers would be all about that.

He is/has been at least international standard which is exceptionally rare for NZ batsmen.

 

[Neil Young]

Latham has been an above average opener most of his career.

Last couple of years not so.

Above average by NZ standards. His record against top sides was never that good at all.

He was definitely the best option at the time and absolutely deserved his place. But he is/was about average internationally, for me.

 

[Flem274*]

He's a 35 average batsman who had it above 40 for years because he never misses out against SL and Bangers at home, and tbf is very good in Asia.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Latham is still better than Bairstow, but I don't think Latham will reach 100 anyway due to the emergence of Rhys Mariu who is averaging 70 in 1st class cricket.

Given what we've just seen and experienced re: Southee's place in the team, I'd put money on Latham being with us for quite a while yet.