Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Mid career Southee was basically late career Anderson - absolutely world class, bordering on ATG.
And both of those phases are longer than most players' entire careers.
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**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests
- Thread starter FBU
- Start date
And both of those phases are longer than most players' entire careers.
Geesus. That's the thing with being a tall quick, some days you're going to do everything but find the edge and you don't often hit the stumps. But he made life incredibly uncomfortable for England and I bet Santner would feel Will earned him a couple by mentally wearing them down. Bethall's **** shot today was also O'Rourke influenced.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, 280 wickets @ 25 between mid 2012 and late 2021, and that includes an 18-month form dip post 2015 WC. He's played a huge hand in lifting NZ from a dreadful state to being a strong side again. Will always miss him as he was in his heyday.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I don't think we have a reliable core of roles anymore.
Previously you'd have rocks or diamond players like Latham, Boult, Southee or de Grandhomme who could hit a double ton, take some wickets and knock a team out for cheap, or score a counter attacking innings. But when they didn't come off, you had Williamson, Taylor, Watling and Wagner as the reliable workhorses to counterbalance them.
Since most of those have gradually departed, Southee has become more exposed, Blundell and Mitchell have been expected to share the Watling, de Grandhomme and Taylor roles and Latham continues to Latham. We're in a genuine rebuilding phase but working off old blueprints.
Flem274*
123/5
Congrats to England. They played the best overall and look to have found some guys who exceeded expectations to complement the usual suspects. The batting gets a lot of press but I think Carse being intense and reliable was a real difference in the series.
NZ are weird in that Southee and Blundell aside, the most talented players are there, they just refuse to convert starts with the bat or catch the cricket ball. That's a leadership issue imo.
Santner continuing to show such skill is a real boon, and the pace talent pool led by Henry looks fun. Henry, KJ, O'Rourke, Smith and Sears have all shown they've got it and there's a couple of dudes who could join them.
But please learn to catch NZ. Pls.
NZ are weird in that Southee and Blundell aside, the most talented players are there, they just refuse to convert starts with the bat or catch the cricket ball. That's a leadership issue imo.
Santner continuing to show such skill is a real boon, and the pace talent pool led by Henry looks fun. Henry, KJ, O'Rourke, Smith and Sears have all shown they've got it and there's a couple of dudes who could join them.
But please learn to catch NZ. Pls.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Glib observation but funny how the two guys who had the most impact in India contributed heavily towards the win here too
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Nah **** em.
thierry henry
International Coach
Our batting clearly wasn't good enough, but the perverse thing is that O'Rourke's bowling (or rather the ultimate effectiveness of O'Rourke's bowling) was actually a contributing factor to us losing the series. Like, when we look back at this series years down the track, the stark reality is going to be that England scored too many runs because only Henry and Santner reliably picked up wickets, Southee was cooked, and Smith/WOR had statistically poor series as effectively our 2nd and 3rd best seam options.
Of course the reality is that WOR was massively impressive and to about as large an extent as you'll ever see, not responsible for his own failure to take wickets. Nevertheless, coming into the series we already knew Southee was cooked and we were always going to be pretty reliant on WOR to take relatively cheap wickets and he didn't. It's a real anomaly.
Damn you ICC.
It's the same next summer as the T20WC knocks out Feb/Mar for any home Tests. Worse, the boys leave for India in January nearly a month before the T20WC starts for a white ball tour against India & a T20 series vs Afghanistan. At least they won't be able to claim we haven't had any warmup games.
Yeah, he'll be commentating her on Thursday.
Boy, I was laughing my head off during that interview at Hagley, as two trains of thought were running through my mind:
- Kerr looked like the little sister who deliberately seats herself between the big sister & her new boyfriend at dinner when he meets her family for the first time
- Considering he'd taken both Root & Bethell earlier, if you had Nathan Smith joining them at the table for the interview, we could've had a live double date
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flibbertyjibber
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Well done NZ.
Great career Southee, shame you didn't go 18 months ago though as it feels a bit hollow.
O'Rourke, Henry and Jamieson is an attack to cause problems in the future. Amazing that both sides had such settled attacks for so long and have both found a good new one in no time at all.
As for England, they simply have to find a place for Bethell going forward and Smith comes back too. Nice problems to have.
Great career Southee, shame you didn't go 18 months ago though as it feels a bit hollow.
O'Rourke, Henry and Jamieson is an attack to cause problems in the future. Amazing that both sides had such settled attacks for so long and have both found a good new one in no time at all.
As for England, they simply have to find a place for Bethell going forward and Smith comes back too. Nice problems to have.
Gnske
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
But what we're not allowed to criticize people's posting here or we get infracted
If only watson and Aussie had cancer
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
Name her, you coward! Ironically, he has commentated her in the last 12 months (I'm 99% sure).
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
Seems to me like he needs a pacifier.
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Post-series thoughts. Generally, this wasn't a high quality series. The tone was set with absolutely atrocious catching in Christchurch. There is absolutely no excuse for professionals not getting the basics right to that extent and, given it was a continuation of poor fielding from Sri Lanka and Latham's claims that there's nothing they can do about it rung pretty hollow. Similarly, the kamikaze batting from both sides was frustrating to both sets of fans, I suspect. From the NZ batsmen falling into obvious traps (both at Christchurch and Wellington) to the lack of application shown by England in Hamilton.
On the flip side, there was some wonderful bowling from O'Rourke and Carse. In general, the England seamers did the job they'd been asked to do - at least until the 2nd innings in Hamilton. Brook and Root at Wellington and Williamson in Hamilton were good to watch at times, but certainly gave their chances (which is primarily why Brook's innings at Christchurch comes in lower down the list). Pope did a decent job in unusual circumstances.
Mind you, the highlights were probably non-cricket ones. My kids having a great day at the Basin was excellent - both the little triceratops but also the older one getting her bat signed by a few NZ players. Enjoyed slinging a few deliveries down at the park in the lunch break and great to have a beer and a yarn with Flibberty. The Basin, as ever, was a delight and it was good to get back down to Hagley, even if viewing spots were hard to come by.
Roll on a new coach and a few fresh faces for Harare.
On the flip side, there was some wonderful bowling from O'Rourke and Carse. In general, the England seamers did the job they'd been asked to do - at least until the 2nd innings in Hamilton. Brook and Root at Wellington and Williamson in Hamilton were good to watch at times, but certainly gave their chances (which is primarily why Brook's innings at Christchurch comes in lower down the list). Pope did a decent job in unusual circumstances.
Mind you, the highlights were probably non-cricket ones. My kids having a great day at the Basin was excellent - both the little triceratops but also the older one getting her bat signed by a few NZ players. Enjoyed slinging a few deliveries down at the park in the lunch break and great to have a beer and a yarn with Flibberty. The Basin, as ever, was a delight and it was good to get back down to Hagley, even if viewing spots were hard to come by.
Roll on a new coach and a few fresh faces for Harare.
flibbertyjibber
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Highlight of the tour for me was the triceratops milking the applause on a lap of the ground just before the end of play.
Great hundred by Brook at Wellington, scratchy at Christchurch. Pope playing beyond expectation with both gloves and bat, Bethell is a find and Carse looking very very good.
As for NZ, Williamson not looking his best but still churning out runs, O'Rourke, Henry and Smith looking a good attack (shame about Southee) and Young and Santner proving they need to stay in the side.
Fun tour but lots of poor cricket mixed with the good on both sides.
Great hundred by Brook at Wellington, scratchy at Christchurch. Pope playing beyond expectation with both gloves and bat, Bethell is a find and Carse looking very very good.
As for NZ, Williamson not looking his best but still churning out runs, O'Rourke, Henry and Smith looking a good attack (shame about Southee) and Young and Santner proving they need to stay in the side.
Fun tour but lots of poor cricket mixed with the good on both sides.
