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**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests
- Thread starter FBU
- Start date
1000% agree with everything in this post.
This side NEEDS media scrutiny. It's the only thing holding them accountable - their own standards aren't. The acid on the All Blacks means they can't carry passengers like Southee. Losing is not acceptable. If something goes wrong, the media go hard on it. But Gary Stead has never faced that. Which is why he says the absolute tripe he said in that article. God he's just a fool of a man
thundaboult
International Debutant
jfc gary stead is just an expired bottle of pepto bismol lol
Howsie
International Captain
Wow this guy is unbelievable.What I've found interesting is the significant 'heat' that has been directed at the set-up. Usually the response to losses is fairly muted, maybe not on talkback radio but certainly in the media and from former players. This has become excruciatingly embarrassing already and we are still 5 days out from the final test of the series.
Black Caps coach Gary Stead defends Tim Southee as pressure mounts for him to go
Stuff
www.stuff.co.nz
James
Cricket Web Owner
Apparently Conway's wife miscarried a child earlier in the year, so perhaps his mental state hasn't been the best and its affected his game.
Personally think it's a good thing its a while before the next Test series. Hopefully it gives NZC a chance to reflect on the coaching setup, captain, and general team makeup. I'd like to see most of the old guard go and bring in a bunch of youngsters to freshen up the team.
Re Southee, it would be interesting to see where he rates alongside our other fast bowlers over the years. I'd have Boult and Wagner over Southee if I had to choose. Southee continuing on as long as he has has certainly affected his legacy and the way fans will remember him.
Personally think it's a good thing its a while before the next Test series. Hopefully it gives NZC a chance to reflect on the coaching setup, captain, and general team makeup. I'd like to see most of the old guard go and bring in a bunch of youngsters to freshen up the team.
Re Southee, it would be interesting to see where he rates alongside our other fast bowlers over the years. I'd have Boult and Wagner over Southee if I had to choose. Southee continuing on as long as he has has certainly affected his legacy and the way fans will remember him.
Silver Silva
International Regular
Will this final year of Southee impact his overall legacy ? Will he go down a spot or two in NZ fans estimation or is it just frustration he hasn't retired earlier?
Kenneth Viljoen
International Regular
I genuinely think this has ruined his legacy somewhat , can even argue what Southee has done is against the spirit of the game ..
Incredibly selfish.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I will always and forever push back against this argument. If you want to play, making yourself available is never selfish. It's up to the selectors to decide if you're good enough. If they're weak and sentimental that's not your fault, it just means they shouldn't be selectors.
If you're emotionally blackmailing them it's a different matter, but I've seen no real evidence of Southee doing that. "I'm available if you think I'm good enough" is the opposite of selfishness.
We shouldn't expect to Southee to go before he wants to. We should expect Stead to say he's not in the best eleven and drop him.
ashley bach
Cricketer Of The Year
Making yourself available when you know you suck stinks to high heaven.
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well, suck up this wonderful quote from Stead:
Stead said on Monday that he couldn’t “speak to Neil Wagner’s book, because I haven’t read it, so I’m not sure what’s in that.
“But like any head coach I’ve had to sit down and have hard conversations with players at times.
“Tim Southee has made the decision that it's on his terms when he wants to go out of game.”
(Edit: From this article https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360515483/black-caps-coach-defends-tim-southee-pressure-mounts-him-go)
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Nah totally disagree.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
This is a fair point though.
jcas0167
International Regular
Maybe although I think since about 2013 he has been seen as less dangerous than peak Boult. That said he did have a bit of a revival after being dropped for Matt Henry in Australia and for a couple of seasons outperformed Boult IIRC. This has taken some of the gloss off that obviously. His overall legacy as one of NZ's finest (and most durable) pace bowlers won't change significantly though imo.
Dick Rockett
International Vice-Captain
Yeah I read this and immediately thought well you're contradicting yourself there buddy. But then it could be a poorly written quote.
Dick Rockett
International Vice-Captain
Agree. I wanted Southee gone a long time ago but I don't doubt that the man thinks he's good enough to be in the team and therefore an asset to it.
jcas0167
International Regular
From my lay perspective top sportspeople often have an almost delusional level of self-belief which means they generally feel they can keep going on despite evidence to the contrary.
Kenneth Viljoen
International Regular
From my POV , There is a clique that has been formed in the NZ team that allows certain players not to be dropped , I don't believe that Stead is stupid nor do I believe Southee is either.They know exactly what they are doing.
Bowlers aren't like batters , getting 20 wickets is the hardest thing in test cricket and when your new ball bowler is averaging 60 in 10 test matches , for me there is no longer a cricketing reason as to why Southee is being picked.
The captaincy has been used as a shield to protect players from being dropped, Southee benefitted and then passed it on to Latham.To save face , Stead and Southee compromised by playing the retirement card on the NZ fans for this current series to justify Southee's selection. That's what it looks like to me and I think that's selfish. Henry had to miss out on the SL tour because of Southee when he's had one of the greatest years ever for a NZ seamer, a potential place at the WTC final has been compromised. I think that's all very selfish.
