**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests

[Bahnz]

A bit of a contrast to when Wagner was 12th man for his last test and seemed to get a huge ovation every time he set foot on or near the field. Maybe we could have done something along those lines for Southee too. His great career has earned him a victory lap in front of big NZ crowds, but maybe it would be better spent walking around the edge of the field rather than bowling toothlessly in the middle.

Yeah should've had Southee as 12th man (he's still probably the safest pair of hands in the team anyway), and given him a couple of jam ODI's later in the season.

Though having said that, I'd really prefer the likes of Fisher and Sears get some game time with the white ball.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I don't mind farewell tours for batsmen as much because even after a batsman is cooked they have a proper chance of still ocassionally pulling out a genuine match-impacting performance, and even if they're a passenger it doesn't impact the others too much. Having one of your four main bowlers being borderline unbowlable is so much worse.

 

[ashley bach]

Can't recall a parallel between such a high to such a low in such a short space of time.
Perhaps winning the WC semi in 2015 only to get smashed days later is the closest thing but that was much more understandable whereas this isn't.

 

[Dick Rockett]

A bit of a contrast to when Wagner was 12th man for his last test and seemed to get a huge ovation every time he set foot on or near the field.

People loved Wagner because he was obviously giving everything. Southee looks like he doesn't want to be there and the vibe from the rest of the team isn't much better than that.

 

[Skyliner]

Apparently Latham said in the post match interview that Southee will play in the 3rd test.

 

[Skyliner]

Southee's extended farewell epitomises New Zealand's stasis

Fast bowler deserves happy ending to mighty 16-year career, but form is a concern for NZ

www.espncricinfo.com

‘His bowling average has now crept the wrong side of 30. His pace, naturally, is down to 128kph in this Test. The conclusion of the farewell tour in Hamilton next week will be Southee's 11th Test of 2024. It has been the busiest year of his Test career, one in which he also relinquished the Test captaincy. With just 15 wickets at 61.66, it is also comfortably his worst.’

 

[Bahnz]

People loved Wagner because he was obviously giving everything. Southee looks like he doesn't want to be there and the vibe from the rest of the team isn't much better than that.

I genuinely wonder whether Southee wants to play next week. It can't be fun bowling overs for no reason other than the rest of the attack needs a rest.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

There is that chance that he gives a bit more than his usual 80% in his final test and gets a decent return. But that in no way would validate one of the most pathetic fade outs seen in professional team sport.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Southee's extended farewell epitomises New Zealand's stasis

Fast bowler deserves happy ending to mighty 16-year career, but form is a concern for NZ

www.espncricinfo.com

‘His bowling average has now crept the wrong side of 30. His pace, naturally, is down to 128kph in this Test. The conclusion of the farewell tour in Hamilton next week will be Southee's 11th Test of 2024. It has been the busiest year of his Test career, one in which he also relinquished the Test captaincy. With just 15 wickets at 61.66, it is also comfortably his worst.’

Key quote for me: "Black Caps skipper Tom Latham said pre-match that the thought of parking Southee was never entertained."

Says it all really. Either they aren't actually interested in winning, or they have no clue how to tell whether a player is actually good or not.

 

[SteveNZ]

Key quote for me: "Black Caps skipper Tom Latham said pre-match that the thought of parking Southee was never entertained."

Says it all really. Either they aren't actually interested in winning, or they have no clue how to tell whether a player is actually good or not.

They also said it about changing Blundell to 7 - yes, that worked out today to not do it, but bloody hell it's absolutely worth 'entertaining'.

They've lost a lot of the good will of India in six playing days. That's a hell of an effort.

 

[GIMH]

Expected to wake up to the game over, so no surprise. Very impressive victory.

There’s a couple of question marks but our bowling is in much better shape than anyone thought it would be with the Anderson and Broad holes in the attack. Crawley is in a real hole but the rest of the batting is looking very good at the minute.

Got to push for a whitewash now.

 

[jcas0167]

Apparently Latham said in the post match interview that Southee will play in the 3rd test.

Well he did get the best figures in the second innings ;-) For all the complaints about Southee people seem to be overlooking that Conway, Latham, Williamson, Ravindra, Mitchell and Phillips scored a total of 172 runs in this test. Average of ~14.33. Good luck winning when your batsmen aren't getting any runs.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Southee's extended farewell epitomises New Zealand's stasis

Fast bowler deserves happy ending to mighty 16-year career, but form is a concern for NZ

www.espncricinfo.com

‘His bowling average has now crept the wrong side of 30. His pace, naturally, is down to 128kph in this Test. The conclusion of the farewell tour in Hamilton next week will be Southee's 11th Test of 2024. It has been the busiest year of his Test career, one in which he also relinquished the Test captaincy. With just 15 wickets at 61.66, it is also comfortably his worst.’

Fully understand picking Southee for a dead rubber final Test, the problem is he’s part of the reason why it’s a dead rubber!

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

I will never understand the need for a farewell test. Be like Dravid and pull the plug after a series when you know you are pretty much done and cant play at the level that the team needs.

In hindsight, Anderson was actually treated rather well, got a doozy of a farewell Test against a weak West Indies team, which has allowed the likes of Atkinson and Carse to flourish in the months since

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

They really have some competition for batting atm, and TBH both smith and Pope have kept really well, think Ollie Robinson (2) may regret that expired passport, hard to see how he gets in.

Smith has become indispensable with the bat, but I don’t think he’ll have the gloves forever, be interesting to see who eventually takes over from him, Ollie Robinson is not old, but you do worry that he may have missed his chance, Cox was supposed to be the next cab off the rank before his injury but I’m not convinced by him in either discipline, Pope has done rather well in his absence with bat and gloves, but depending on when Smith gives up the gloves I reckon Rew might be next

 

[BazBall21]

Can't recall a parallel between such a high to such a low in such a short space of time.
Perhaps winning the WC semi in 2015 only to get smashed days later is the closest thing but that was much more understandable whereas this isn't.

I tipped England to win but I don't think anybody expected them to be this dominant.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

I tipped England to win but I don't think anybody expected them to be this dominant.

First Test was decided by some comically bad fielding, England have dominated every facet of this game, a very impressive win for a team who have developed a habit of not stamping their authority on away series

 

[wpdavid]

Yes, those dropped catches in the first test arguably decided the series. Well, maybe, anyway. But England have done lots of things very well, so the win is far from undeserved. As others have said, selection next summer is going to be very interesting.

 

[Bahnz]

Well he did get the best figures in the second innings ;-) For all the complaints about Southee people seem to be overlooking that Conway, Latham, Williamson, Ravindra, Mitchell and Phillips scored a total of 172 runs in this test. Average of ~14.33. Good luck winning when your batsmen aren't getting any runs.

Yeah, this is the big problem for NZ. Southee blowing it down at 125 doesn't help, but the entire top 6 has been short of runs for the last 18 months. Even in India we only passed 260 once, and looked in huge danger of being bowled out for 250 in the first test until Southee and Rachin produced that incredible partnership.

The problem for us is that when everyone's batting badly it's quite hard to single out one or two players to drop. Until today it was definitely Blundell - and I remain far from convinced given the bulk of his runs came from boshing a spinner on a day 3 seamy road in conditions where anything better than a complete mishit was always going to sail onto the bank. Nonetheless, you can't drop a guy who scored nearly as many as the entire team did in the first innings. Conway is probably next in the firing line - but then he was our third best bat in India by a distance. Yes he looks totally shot, but he's still obviously got plenty of talent, and the first cab off the rank Will Young has already failed as an opener. Rachin? He set up our first test win in India and overall had had an excellent first year in test cricket until these past couple of weeks. Mitchell? Yes his average isn't flash in the past year, but he's actually been the least bad of the underperformers, and has had to deal with being left high and dry by his comrades on a few occasions. They're obviously not going to drop Latham.

I actually don't mind Pews idea of dropping Conway, elevating Mitchell to open, bringing in Young at 4 and dropping Rachin down to 5. Would be a pretty desperate play, but given the routine inability of NZ to put runs on the board, and Stead's refusal to go outside the squad, it does feel like the best of a bad bunch of options.

 

[Howe_zat]

I have been a lot more impressed by England's bowling than their batting this series. Which is partly just because my expectation was the reverse.

Brook's hundred in the first innings here was by all accounts a class apart, but most of the other key knocks for England have been rather skittish and chancy. Bethell obviously played well but his partnership with Duckett wasn't particularly secure or convincing given some of the edges for four and plays and misses I watched on the one day I was able to stay up late. They've been playing against a limp fielding effort and as noted Southee isn't contributing any more, so the challenge of batting in NZ hasn't quite held up to usual standard.

The bowling on the other hand has generally been excellent, most notably Carse has been relentless but Woakes and Atkison have also consistently taken key wickets against technically strong players to set up every innings except the very first, and on that first day they dug deep and didn't let NZ get away from them. Every time the game has been in the balance they've delivered, the entire set of good scores against them across two tests have been one Williamson fifty on the first day followed by two knocks after the game was already over.