**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests

[straw man]

I don't actually think that mid-30s is that old for either of them. The way Southee has looked over the last couple of years he's seemed a lot older than 35.

No excuses even if he was - Sir Paddles rolled out for his last test at the age of 40 and took 8 wickets, one on the last ball of his career!

Southee's easy rhythmic bowling action and being a low 130s operator might make him well suited to play through to 37-38 like some have, imo, but it hasn't happened. I agree that 34-35 feels a little young to have lost his zip... but he has, occasional opening spell aside.

Thirty four (or 33 really) also feels young for Blundell to be playing like a creaking 80 year old. I wondered about ages at final test for keepers so looked up a few - Watling, Smith, Healy, Boucher, several others. Some retired at 35, a couple 36, many others were dropped or fell away aged 32-33. I guess it makes sense that they barely get past 35, as test wicketkeeping would be incredibly tough on the body. So looking at that, perhaps less surprising that Blundell's firmly on the downward trajectory.

 

[thundaboult]

Southee is honestly just very lazy. Of course he lost his zip ages ago. There is no energy in anything he does. The body language, the run up (more like a walk up), the batting. It all just screams lack of effort.

Definitely should not be losing your zip at 34-35, let alone 28-29. He has been pedestrian for the longest time.

 

[Skyliner]

Southee came into the team at 19 and has been a workhorse, bowling 23,220 balls in test cricket so far over the course of his 105 tests. He’s moving on tired legs. Others have had periods out of the test scene with injury, he’s kept on keeping on. I think he’s given all he has to give and it’s been a pretty forlorn situation over the past couple of seasons as he has struggled to take wickets. There’s how old you are in years, but in his case there’s also the cumulative effect of 15+ years of international cricket. Maybe he felt after Boult departed the scene that someone had to stick around with Henry to ensure a smooth transition.

 

[thierry henry]

Southee was never quick and honestly he went through phases of bowling 120s before he even hit 30. He’s currently operating near the bottom of his pace range but I think somehow it’s not just that alone that’s the problem. The likes of Philander, McGrath, Pollock etc all had phases where they operated successfully in the 120s. I don’t know how to exactly explain Southee’s lack of ‘zip’ but it does seem to be that which is the problem.

 

[thierry henry]

Southee's easy rhythmic bowling action and being a low 130s operator might make him well suited to play through to 37-38 like some have, imo, but it hasn't happened. I agree that 34-35 feels a little young to have lost his zip... but he has, occasional opening spell aside.

Thirty four (or 33 really) also feels young for Blundell to be playing like a creaking 80 year old. I wondered about ages at final test for keepers so looked up a few - Watling, Smith, Healy, Boucher, several others. Some retired at 35, a couple 36, many others were dropped or fell away aged 32-33. I guess it makes sense that they barely get past 35, as test wicketkeeping would be incredibly tough on the body. So looking at that, perhaps less surprising that Blundell's firmly on the downward trajectory.

How is 34 year old Blundell really 33

 

[Chin Music]

That could be why they were interested in Hull. F/c average of 57.63 econ 4.95 but 6'7

Oh his height and pace were obviously why he was interesting them. Still a daft pick with a daft run up and a not very repeatable action at this time of his career.

 

[Bahnz]

How is 34 year old Blundell really 33

I think he means his poor performance was a problem long before he turned 34.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

That could be why they were interested in Hull. F/c average of 57.63 econ 4.95 but 6'7

Height, pace, bounce is what they want. Carse and Hull fit the bill there.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Southee came into the team at 19 and has been a workhorse, bowling 23,220 balls in test cricket so far over the course of his 105 tests. He’s moving on tired legs. Others have had periods out of the test scene with injury, he’s kept on keeping on. I think he’s given all he has to give and it’s been a pretty forlorn situation over the past couple of seasons as he has struggled to take wickets. There’s how old you are in years, but in his case there’s also the cumulative effect of 15+ years of international cricket. Maybe he felt after Boult departed the scene that someone had to stick around with Henry to ensure a smooth transition.

Didn't hurt Anderson or Broad and their workload was heavier.

 

[anonymouskefe]

Didn't hurt Anderson or Broad and their workload was heavier.

Broad and Anderson both stopped whiteball cricket internationally around 10 years ago Southee has been playing all 3 formats pretty much continuously had he done the same and focused on test matches only I believe he would have a better record for it

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Tim Southee on the other hand is obviously cooked; any arguments for playing him are completely bunk.

Nah, there are loads of good arguments for playing Southee.

Just off the top of my head:

1. He's almost on 100 Test 6s.


...ok I can think of 1.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Nah, there are loads of good arguments for playing Southee.

Just off the top of my head:

1. He's almost on 100 Test 6s.


...ok I can think of 1.

2. He is less likely to show up Woakes than 20 random seamers from the Plunket Shield.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

2. He is less likely to show up Woakes than 20 random seamers from the Plunket Shield.

0.001% is indeed < 0.00101%

 

[Adders]

2. He is less likely to show up Woakes than 20 random seamers from the Plunket Shield.

Well.you should really bring a couple of them in mate.

 

[RMBolton]

Well.you should really bring a couple of them in mate.

Call up Brett Hampton!

 

[RMBolton]

Really hard to know. If it spins like last year 100% yes. But that was pretty atypical

That's the thing. That was rather late in the season & it was pretty dry. After the PS game in Round 1, I was pretty convinced spin would be useless, & without looking at the weather forecast, I'm feeling pretty similar about Seddon.

 

[straw man]

How is 34 year old Blundell really 33

Cos his performance has been bad for over a year.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Southee was never quick and honestly he went through phases of bowling 120s before he even hit 30. He’s currently operating near the bottom of his pace range but I think somehow it’s not just that alone that’s the problem. The likes of Philander, McGrath, Pollock etc all had phases where they operated successfully in the 120s. I don’t know how to exactly explain Southee’s lack of ‘zip’ but it does seem to be that which is the problem.

All those bowlers relied primarily on seam movement rather than swing. You can be slightly slower if you rely on seam movement because it's random and late. 130kph outswing is a dying breed.

 

[Flem274*]

All those bowlers relied primarily on seam movement rather than swing. You can be slightly slower if you rely on seam movement because it's random and late. 130kph outswing is a dying breed.

Which is funny because NZ have been very embarrassed about their many 130kph seamers for years and have picked them last.

 

[Nicky]

You are pretty harsh on Southee, who announces this series being his farewell series... I mean, he has played over 100 tests, and is saying goodbye isn't he ?