**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests

[Hungry Llama]

Beetel is better at golf than OR2, bash is better than Leach. I think theyll keep the same side.

 

[SteveNZ]

Anyway, I feel like this week is pivotal to this side. They can live off the perfect storm of India if they like, but since WTC 2021 we've won three series' - v SA C that Kane saved our blushes, the Indian epic and 2-0 v a poor Sri Lanka team at home - drawn 5 and lost 5. A long, long way from the halcyon days of 2013-14 onwards.

 

[Skyliner]

A tailender tells a batsman that if he plays normally without farming the strike, then he’ll stick around, get in behind it, and they’ll carry the score forward to a defendable target. The batsman hesitates, afraid to believe, but the tailender argues that if he were to play with reckless abandon it will doom them both, they will both have to trudge off. Considering this, the batsman agrees, but after the batsman takes a single off the 2nd ball of the next over the tailender does indeed roll his eyes back in his head and go for a wild slog, skying it and being caught comfortably well inside the boundary. As they both trudge off the tailender says to the batsman “I couldn’t help it, it was just my nature”.

This fable also works with frogs and scorpions.

 

[Immenso]

I don't think this week is pivotal. It's just another week in the 3-year-long Chinese drip torture until Stead shuffles off.

The India series was a wildly unexpected one-off where short term contracted Herath got the spin bowling going and some low profile Indian batting coach who I'd never heard of, got the batters working to a plan (and they had lead-in matches to get working).

Now it's back to the Steady-Quo. Of declining senior player output and no jeopardy.

0-3.

 

[ashley bach]

We're bouncing back in Wellington BTW

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, I'm not prescribing to the doom and gloom mindset just yet. NZ's cricket was the worst I've probably seen since the Hesson era began. They're a decent chance of hitting back if they can play their best cricket. But I have to say, England should definitely start favourites after that showing.

 

[Immenso]

Yeah, I'm not prescribing to the doom and gloom mindset just yet. NZ's cricket was the worst I've probably seen since the Hesson era began. They're a decent chance of hitting back if they can play their best cricket. But I have to say, England should definitely start favourites after that showing.

Being serious here, question.

If christchurch was was the worst you've probably seen since the Hesson era began. What would be the second worst?

I'm thinking it is quite likely the second test in Galle? Just 5 tests ago.

If so, it is quite a trend. Bookending either side of that Indian tour.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

In defence of some of the catching, I was at the ground and there were numerous times that I lost sight of the ball in the trees when the ball was in the air, obviously that won't have been the case for every catch as some were dropped out of the pavilion background but clearly some on both sides were dropped or not even attempted for as the catcher lost sight of the ball.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next game.

 

[Zinzan]

Just back from overseas having missed the entire 1st Test.

Am I correct in assuming from the scorecard that NZ basically lost the Test by; Firstly giving away easy middle order wickets on Day 1 after having a good foundation with the bat, and then again on day 2 dropping Brook twice (or was it 3 times) after having England 4 down early while still having close to a 200 run lead? Or is that summary a bit simplistic?

 

[_Ed_]

dropping Brook twice (or was it 3 times)

Five. Five times.

 

[Zinzan]

Five. Five times.

Well **** me then .

 

[thierry henry]

Being serious here, question.

If christchurch was was the worst you've probably seen since the Hesson era began. What would be the second worst?

I'm thinking it is quite likely the second test in Galle? Just 5 tests ago.

If so, it is quite a trend. Bookending either side of that Indian tour.

I still think the worst cricket we’ve played was dropping home tests to Bangladesh and (to a lesser extent) SA in 2021/22. The beginning of the end, which came so quickly after the WTC that 3 years later some people are still struggling to accept that that’s what’s happening.

In some ways constantly losing to BazBall is/was worse, but bending the knee to horrible England teams is both so beyond the pale to me and also so expected that I sort of just deliriously soak it up in a fatalistic fugue state.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

In defence of some of the catching, I was at the ground and there were numerous times that I lost sight of the ball in the trees when the ball was in the air, obviously that won't have been the case for every catch as some were dropped out of the pavilion background but clearly some on both sides were dropped or not even attempted for as the catcher lost sight of the ball.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next game.

Doesn’t excuse in any way the drop by Blundell. And, these are pros. I’ve played on much harder grounds and still would have been embarrassed by about half the drops if I’d duffed them. Let’s not give them excuses - these guys are paid handsomely and they were **** at one of the basics.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Well **** me then .

No thanks.

8 drops in total, 5 for Brook including one by Blundell that was shameful for any keeper to drop.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Doesn’t excuse in any way the drop by Blundell. And, these are pros. I’ve played on much harder grounds and still would have been embarrassed by about half the drops if I’d duffed them. Let’s not give them excuses - these guys are paid handsomely and they were **** at one of the basics.

The Blundell one was shocking. Worst of the lot.

Both sides dropped chances though, we shelled a load too on day 1 but not as many.

 

[Bahnz]

I still think the worst cricket we’ve played was dropping home tests to Bangladesh and (to a lesser extent) SA in 2021/22. The beginning of the end, which came so quickly after the WTC that 3 years later some people are still struggling to accept that that’s what’s happening.

In some ways constantly losing to BazBall is/was worse, but bending the knee to horrible England teams is both so beyond the pale to me and also so expected that I sort of just deliriously soak it up in a fatalistic fugue state.

Yeah, fair call, that 2nd SA test in particular was so similar to last week's effort. Shelling vital catches, the lower order throwing it away, over reliance on short **** on a still helpful pitch, NZ being made to look a bit silly for taking the 4-seamer approach when the opposition spinner plays a vital role. It's happened again and again since 2021 really (Bangladesh, SA, Australia tests 1 and 2 and now last week). Which is a big part of what makes it so frustrating.

 

[SteveNZ]

Doesn’t excuse in any way the drop by Blundell. And, these are pros. I’ve played on much harder grounds and still would have been embarrassed by about half the drops if I’d duffed them. Let’s not give them excuses - these guys are paid handsomely and they were **** at one of the basics.

Did England drop any? I don't recall any. They caught way better than us, and it's not their ground. So I don't buy the visuals at the ground rubbish for a quick second.

Look, it happens. We caught incredibly well in the first Test in India. And from memory, we must've caught poorly in Sri Lanka given I remember being shocked we caught well in India. But it just happens too much, now...as evidenced by the fact our stats in 2024 are only better than Bangladesh, and from memory 10% worse than Australia, England etc. It's mud. And I think it speaks to management standards but I could well be wrong.

 

[Immenso]

Mitchell dropped 3 himself in the only innings of Sri Lanka test 2, plus a Blundell missed stumping. Not sure if that is all the drops, or just the drops highlights considered mentionable-worthy in the article my googling returned.

 

[Meridio]

Did England drop any? I don't recall any. They caught way better than us, and it's not their ground. So I don't buy the visuals at the ground rubbish for a quick second.

Look, it happens. We caught incredibly well in the first Test in India. And from memory, we must've caught poorly in Sri Lanka given I remember being shocked we caught well in India. But it just happens too much, now...as evidenced by the fact our stats in 2024 are only better than Bangladesh, and from memory 10% worse than Australia, England etc. It's mud. And I think it speaks to management standards but I could well be wrong.

England dropped one that I recall. Stokes at mid-off off Phillips first innings. Difficult chance, though probably would back him to catch it. That's it though I think

 

[Fuller Pilch]

What's to say his bowling is jammy, though? Two of the best bowling performances I've seen in the last five years were his insane 3-37 off 10 in the World Cup when the opposition were on to score 450, and the 5-45 at the Basin last year. Who were those against? Australia, for whom a lot of the side have a mental block. You look across his Test career and in most bowling innings', he's contributed.

I don't expect him to bat in the top 4 but even with the bat, he's making good starts more often than not. It's stupid to suggest he can't play the way he did last week, batting one higher. And the only way he's going to get better is to be given more responsibility.

There's only one GP in terms of talent and to my mind we're using it horribly. By Australia 2026-27, let him bat 5, back him as your main spinner in non-spinning conditions, he'll respond. At the moment, he's being used with even less value than Mitchell Santner, given Santner bats one lower but bowls a lot more (and averaged 45+ until Pune). To steal a Cleaver stat, Santner has bowled 30 overs on average per Test, GP 19, and Santner takes a wicket every 78 balls compared to GP's 49.

He also looked in control and thinking the whole time when he took 3 wickets in the final over to win that recent T20 in SL