Richard Hadlee vs Ian Botham

[kyear2]

Guess that would be different outside CW. Botham is rated higher than Hadlee as a cricketer outside cricketweb afaik.

Is he though?

Hadlee is an absolute top tier bowler and a handy bat.

Top 6 player of all time for me, Botham doesn't make my top 35

 

[kyear2]

I'm just reponding to his point about never seeing Hadlee making an ATG team. He has, a lot, recently.

Rankings outside of CW can be catastrophically bad from the general public. The newspaper type polls are hilarious.

And even more expert opinions can be hot garbage. Not least because they are seldom actually objectively trying to rank the best players.

Public polls are atrocious and I don't count those.

Years ago I had collected quite a few "experts" teams and he didn't make any of those either.

No disrespect to the great man, I think he's the 3rd best bowler ever.

 

[kyear2]

In an ATG XI, everything gets nerfed.

Imran could be a 6/7 for a normal team but 8 for an ATG team.

Heavily lean more 7 than 6.

 

[subshakerz]

For multiple reasons I'm the opposite.

Don't like teams with Maco, Paddles and Immy. All 3 bowlers from one era is like choosing 3 batsmen from the 30's.

If I'm choosing my two opening bowlers, and I know not everyone agrees, I just want my two best, period.

I mean, those are the guys that's filling the most important positions on your team.

But all just my opinion.

I think Hadlee may have been a better new ball bowler than McGrath. He would squeeze any bit of movement off the deck and in the air with a red cherry.

But if Marshall is at the other end, then I want McGrath give his height and bounce.

 

[subshakerz]

Heavily lean more 7 than 6.

Depends. As you know, in the 80s he could replace Logie in the WI at no.5/6.

 

[subshakerz]

Is he though?

Hadlee is an absolute top tier bowler and a handy bat.

Top 6 player of all time for me, Botham doesn't make my top 35

Hadlee doesn't make top fast bowler conversations outside of CW. He gets grouped as an AR so some English pundit can wax lyrical about Botham's Headingley game and forget Hadlee existed.

 

[kyear2]

I think Hadlee may have been a better new ball bowler than McGrath. He would squeeze any bit of movement off the deck and in the air with a red cherry.

But if Marshall is at the other end, then I want McGrath give his height and bounce.

What I've said for years. Also ideally suited to bowl into the wind.

 

[kyear2]

Depends. As you know, in the 80s he could replace Logie in the WI at no.5/6.

We've had this discussion before and I greatly disagree.

Not to mention that Logie didn't make the final 11 many games during his career.

 

[kyear2]

On second thought, it's pretty hard to get Hadlee in.

1st ATG XI IMO(Test &FC):-

Jack Hobbs
WG Grace
Don Bradman
Sachin Tendulkar
Viv Richards
Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Malcolm Marshall
Glenn McGrath
Muttiah Muralitharan

Notable ommissions:- Hadlee, Kallis, Warne, Barnes, Akram.

First off, if using first class (which the Wisden AT XI also factored in), and using greatness as an primary criteria, really good XI.

But using F /C and choosing a team to take the field, then I definitely swapping out the openers for Hutton and Barry and Imran for Wasim.

And I mentioned it upfront. But think the Wisden All Time XI factored in cricket in general. Factoring in first class for the older guys and odi's for the subsequent generation. That would solidify someone like Wasim and even Viv.

 

[sayon basak]

First off, if using first class (which the Wisden AT XI also factored in), and using greatness as an primary criteria, really good XI.

But using F /C and choosing a team to take the field, then I definitely swapping out the openers for Hutton and Barry and Imran for Wasim.

And I mentioned it upfront. But think the Wisden All Time XI factored in cricket in general. Factoring in first class for the older guys and odi's for the subsequent generation. That would solidify someone like Wasim and even Viv.

Yeah, Wasim would also offer some variation.

 

[subshakerz]

We've had this discussion before and I greatly disagree.

Not to mention that Logie didn't make the final 11 many games during his career.

50 odd tests is a lot of tests for supposedly a non test class bat in the best team in the world.

 

[kyear2]

50 odd tests is a lot of tests for supposedly a non test class bat in the best team in the world.

Was about 80 for the period, so yeah. He didn't play nearly every match

 

[subshakerz]

Was about 80 for the period, so yeah. He didn't play nearly every match

Golmes played around the same too. Like I said, you don't play that much in the best team in the world if you aren't basically the standard of lower order bat of the era.

And I can give you similar lower order bats in virtually every team of the time. Imran met that standard as a specialist 80s lower order bat.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Another Imran thread