• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Just How Good Was Barry Richards?

Qlder

International Debutant
During that era, and for an opener? And you factor in his acting rate?

And then you add WSC?

I'll just say that there must be a reason why everyone rates him the best.
So if you're saying "for an opener during that era", then Gavaskar had a much better record.

At end of 1970 counting the ROW as tests Barry Richards had 9 'tests', 765 @ 54.64 with 2 hundreds, HS 140.

For 1971 alone Gavasker had 7 Tests, 918 runs @ 83.45 with 4 hundreds, HS 220

As for WSC, rightly or wrongly no player has ever been given credit for WSC matches so why should Richards just because he has no other tests?
 
Last edited:

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Jesus Christ, not every thing is about Imran.

And I go out of my way to avoid him and the drama he brings.

For what can only be the 450th time, I rate him exactly the same the forum does. Exactly.... Behind only 5 pacers and the two GOAT spinners.
Its not about Imran it's about your double standard of using and ignoring WSC stats.

As for WSC, rightly or wrongly no player has ever been given credit for WSC matches so why should Richards just because he has no other tests?
He claims to give WSC credit but ignores it for players he doesn't like.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Yes Sunny had some great knocks, and I want to make clear that I think he's a top 10 batsman of all time and a certified ATG, even if not in the best after Bradman conversation. But he was also kinda hit and miss and he generally struggled on faster decks and especially against Lillee. The surfaces he generally scored on (against us especially) were ones similar to the ones he had at home.

Barry has a stellar record against D.K and most of the top bowlers of his era, and this was generally in Australia, South Africa or England, all surfaces that pacers would have found some assistance.

The skill of the man is also what he was capable of, hundreds before lunch, once against prime Lillee and barely missing out on one in tests.

With regards to if he faced anything similar to what Sunny faced in the Caribbean? No. Even though it included an aging Roberts, it was still possibly the greatest attack ever. But he faced attacks and bowlers magnitudes better than the Luke's of Bradman, Hutton and even more modern contemporaries, especially from the 2000's.

Barry did face some good attacks, and again it was his dominance. Think ORS or Coronis said that he wasn't as dominant domestically, but @peterhrt also showed a table highlighting how he did when facing the best bowlers of the era, that's when he elevated his game. In various innings he took Lillee apart, how many test batsmen are capable of doing that? I would hazard a guess of two.

At the end of the day, this was the guy who was regarded as the best bat in the world for at least half a decade, and the likes of Bradman, Lillee and Dickie bird called the best opener they'd seen, and in Lillee's case, bowled to.
All said, both Richards did not play the greatest pace attack ever assembled like other batsmen of their time.
 

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
I would. Richards never proved himself on square turners like Lara, Richards, Sobers or Barrington.
The Sub-continent doesn't have a mortgage on 'square turners'. A lot of county wickets were prepared to favour their spinners yet Richards more than proved himself in these conditions. As @kyear2 pointed out, he did face his fair share of Underwood who, at the time, was regarded by many as the premier spinner in the world.
 

Migara

International Coach
The Sub-continent doesn't have a mortgage on 'square turners'. A lot of county wickets were prepared to favour their spinners yet Richards more than proved himself in these conditions. As @kyear2 pointed out, he did face his fair share of Underwood who, at the time, was regarded by many as the premier spinner in the world.
Once again, those players who played Underwood and Co was found wanting in subcontinent when the heat, dust, relentless pressure from spinners set in. It is not like playing Underwood alone when, Chandra, Prasanna and Bedi are at you on a spinning pitch, or when few of Mushtaq, Qadir, Qasim, and Tauseef are at you.
 

kyear2

International Coach
So if you're saying "for an opener during that era", then Gavaskar had a much better record.

At end of 1970 counting the ROW as tests Barry Richards had 9 'tests', 765 @ 54.64 with 2 hundreds, HS 140.

For 1971 alone Gavasker had 7 Tests, 918 runs @ 83.45 with 4 hundreds, HS 220

As for WSC, rightly or wrongly no player has ever been given credit for WSC matches so why should Richards just because he has no other tests?
If you want to make a comparable analysis, better one would be to compare the ROW tests vs Sunny's first tour to England the following year. Might want to take a peek of what he averaged vs a very similar attack.

The reason that no one but Luffy gives Sunny credit for that '71 series is because it was possibly the absolute worst test attack ever. No one rated it then or now. For the majority if not duration of the '70's Barry was seen as the better batsman between the two.

With regards to WSC, of course I factor it into valuations for other players, especially the batsmen. It was a bowling friendly series and only 3 batsmen prospered, and I often reference it for all 3, especially Chappell.

WSC, and I'll never stop saying this, was a better quality of cricket than the corresponding tests that were played concurrently. Don't think that's a big call.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Its not about Imran it's about your double standard of using and ignoring WSC stats.


He claims to give WSC credit but ignores it for players he doesn't like.
Honest to God dude, only you can bring Imran into a BR thread.

Imran is already a top 6 pacer, slightly ahead of Lillee, Donald and Wasim etc.

But if you want to focus on WSC, Procter averaged better with bat and ball. If you want me to factor it in for Immy, what does it say about Proctor?

Yes it's factored in for Imran, what bothers you is that it's not enough to push him ahead of Ambrose, so unless I come to the same conclusion as you it means I'm not factoring it in.

Ambrose was God mode in England, Australia and the W.I, Imran only in Pakistan and that comes with an *. That's why I, and I imagine a sizeable portion of the forum has Ambrose and of course Steyn ahead of him.

Unlike you and Lara which you bring up at every possibly opportunity, I actively avoid this topic and you consistently force it.
 
Last edited:

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
But if you want to focus on WSC, Procter averaged better with bat and ball. If you want me to factor it in for Immy, what does it say about Proctor?
All I ask is you be consistent about WSC because you didn't factor it in before and trashed Imran's record in Aus without even mentioning it.

Now you readily use it to boost Barry because he doesn't have an intl career aside from that.

Anyways, point is made, proceed with your Barry boosting.
 

peterhrt

U19 Captain
Spinners Goel, Shivalkar and Vaman Kumar played 2 Tests between them. How highly are they rated in India?

Ranji Trophy stats:

Bedi 403 wickets @ 15.00. 5.3 wpm
Goel 637 @ 17.28. 5.2 wpm
Prasanna 370 @ 17.29. 5.2 wpm
Shivalkar 361 @ 17.78. 4.9 wpm
Vaman Kumar 418 @ 18.13. 4.9 wpm
Venkat 530 @ 18.22. 5.5 wpm
Gupte 121 @ 18.71. 5.0 wpm
Chandra 437 @ 19.11. 5.8 wpm
 

Top