Jack Hobbs vs Sachin Tendulkar

[subshakerz]

Maybe the difference between Gavaskar and Miandad as batsmen isn’t that big?

Yeah Miandad underrated in general. Gavaskar tho better especially given he was an opener in a tough era perhaps a tad overrated.

 

[capt_Luffy]

If Miandad with his 33 in WI and 38 in Australia to be better than Gavaskar away was supposed to be a joke, it wasn't particularly funny. Dude isn't better than Younis.

 

[h_hurricane]

One valid criticism of Gavaskar is he sometimes had inexplicable slow poke innings when the situation demanded batting aggressively. In the 85-86 Melbourne test for instance, he scored an atrocious 8(54) when the team needed to score 126 runs in a session or so, with all wickets in hand.

 

[capt_Luffy]

One valid criticism of Gavaskar is he sometimes had inexplicable slow poke innings when the situation demanded batting aggressively. In the 85-86 Melbourne test for instance, he scored an atrocious 8(54) when the team needed to score 126 runs in a session or so, with all wickets in hand.

This single led me to rate Viv higher than him

 

[kyear2]

Same here. Sobers could not have taken a wicket or a catch and I would have him over Kallis.

To be fair you hate Kallis though.

 

[capt_Luffy]

To be fair you hate Kallis though.

As a pure batsman Sobers is almost equal to Sachin, whom I rate over Kallis. So I think I would do that too.

 

[subshakerz]

To be fair you hate Kallis though.

Again with the 'hate'. You should be above such cheap shots.

I am objective enough to separate my dislike of his batting style with a fair qualitative assessment of him as a player.

What you perceived as 'hate' is just my holding a strong opinion in opposition to group think here.

And I think I may headway. I believe now it's a common opinion here that Kallis the bowler is overrated despite holdouts such as yourself. Hopefully soon more folks will realise the extent of issues with his batting.

Folks like you say I hate Lara though he is one of my favorite bats. But now begrudgingly even his supporters are accepting he was handicapped against high pace and had an underwhelming away record.

 

[kyear2]

Again with the 'hate'. You should be above such cheap shots.

I am objective enough to separate my dislike of his batting style with a fair qualitative assessment of him as a player.

What you perceived as 'hate' is just my holding a strong opinion in opposition to group think here.

And I think I may headway. I believe now it's a common opinion here that Kallis the bowler is overrated despite holdouts such as yourself. Hopefully soon more folks will realise the extent of issues with his batting.

Folks like you say I hate Lara though he is one of my favorite bats. But now begrudgingly even his supporters are accepting he was handicapped against high pace and had an underwhelming away record.

Dude I was ribbing you, just relax.

This one though, handicapped?

Even though @Slifer keeps pointing out that his and Tendy's record against SA aren't that different?

 

[DrWolverine]

This single led me to rate Viv higher than him

The vice versa is also true isn’t it?

If Viv was more patient in the 1983 Final, WI could have won another World Cup. But the guy was in a hurry and was over confident.

Gavaskar helped India to many draws. I do not think Viv could do it. TBH he didn’t have the need since his pacers could take all the wickets

 

[Coronis]

The vice versa is also true isn’t it?

If Viv was more patient in the 1983 Final, WI could have won another World Cup. But the guy was in a hurry and was over confident.

Gavaskar helped India to many draws. I do not think Viv could do it. TBH he didn’t have the need since his pacers could take all the wickets

Not really. They still have a pretty meh win rate for such a great team. Their bowlers didn’t bowl out the opposition team often enough.

 

[capt_Luffy]

The vice versa is also true isn’t it?

If Viv was more patient in the 1983 Final, WI could have won another World Cup. But the guy was in a hurry and was over confident.

Gavaskar helped India to many draws. I do not think Viv could do it. TBH he didn’t have the need since his pacers could take all the wickets

Probably true, but what I hated the most there is the lack of intent to win. The hunger. That innings basically meant India was playing for a draw, which is shameful. Mind you, Gavaskar can bat fast when wanted. He had the shots, just refused to play them. He had the 5th fastest century when he scored the 114 vs WI quartet in '83. That approach, opening from a country with historically fragile openers, is explanatory. But refusing to try is my problem.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Not really. They still have a pretty meh win rate for such a great team. Their bowlers didn’t bowl out the opposition team often enough.

Yeah, it came as a small shocker to me as well.

 

[kyear2]

Jack Hobbs. He literally has a perfect record, even the only caveat Tendulkar have (lack of 500+ runs series, which I frankly don't value, like at all); Hobbs has filled up there as well. It's the only reason I said in this thread that Hobbs and Tendulkar are above the rest, though nothing much between them.

So your best after Bradman tier is a group of two? Well that's basically because of what you value, I imagine.

The two factors I look at is

Genius / ability to dominate

Who was it done against

Again, not making the argument that any was better than Sachin. But "easily ahead of" isn't something I can grasp thinking about the next two.

I actually have Hobbs at the bottom of that category. But I also don't especially rate players from that era, he's just too much of an outlier to ignore.

 

[Johan]

Is there any batsman who has a perfect record?

Obviously Bradman doesn’t count.

Sachin is the closest in my opinion.

He played against 9 countries and averages 40+ against all those countries. He played in 10 countries and averages 40+ in all of them.

Luffy already said Hobbs, so I'll say Hutton

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Don't get me wrong, Gavaskar is a league ahead of Miandad overall.

But let's be objective here:

In England, Miandad has a better record and at least two series he delivered in, Gavaskar only one out of five.

In NZ, Miandad actually has really oustanding returns against Hadlee in a couple of series unlike Gavaskar. In fact may have been the best bat to play against Hadlee in his career.

In Australia, both are subobtimal but Miandad at least has a ton against Lillee he can point to, and a decent series in 81 around the same time Gavaskar toured. Gavaskar only propped up his Aussie record against a crap Aus team in 86 and a diminished Aus team in 78 (this was Thommo post injury).

In WI, Miandad never cashed in on weaker attacks like Gavaskar and has a poorer record. However, I will take his 87/88 series there over Gavaskar in 76.

Gavaskar outstanding in Pakistan against Imran is a feather in his cap, Miandad very good in India.

Miandad’s away record outside Hadlee is overrated. In Eng Gavaskar has an ATG series, Miandad plundered weak attacks there. Overall in WI, Gavaskar is way better any way you put it. And in Aus, Miandad has one ton but has a far worse record cmon. Gavaskar faced a very threatening Thommo and Wayne Clarke there

 

[capt_Luffy]

So your best after Bradman tier is a group of two? Well that's basically because of what you value, I imagine.

The two factors I look at is

Genius / ability to dominate

Who was it done against

Again, not making the argument that any was better than Sachin. But "easily ahead of" isn't something I can grasp thinking about the next two.

I actually have Hobbs at the bottom of that category. But I also don't especially rate players from that era, he's just too much of an outlier to ignore.

Hobbs is at the top for me, even over SRT, so there's that. Easily in the sense, I really don't think any of the other 6 can be placed higher. They all have arguments strong enough to not be much behind these 2, but like I said, I consider these 2 the best after Don; then those 6.

 

[kyear2]

The vice versa is also true isn’t it?

If Viv was more patient in the 1983 Final, WI could have won another World Cup. But the guy was in a hurry and was over confident.

Gavaskar helped India to many draws. I do not think Viv could do it. TBH he didn’t have the need since his pacers could take all the wickets

Think IVA was capable of feats only he could do.

And Viv did play some patient innings, he was capable of shutting down.

 

[DrWolverine]

The two factors I look at is

Genius / ability to dominate

Who was it done against

That means you will have the likes of Barrington and Kallis quite low in your all time list.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Miandad’s away record outside Hadlee is overrated. In Eng Gavaskar has an ATG series, Miandad plundered weak attacks there. Overall in WI, Gavaskar is way better any way you put it. And in Aus, Miandad has one ton but has a far worse record cmon. Gavaskar faced a very threatening Thommo and Wayne Clarke there

Also a 70 vs Lillee in a successful run chase, drawing the series.

 

[kyear2]

Not really. They still have a pretty meh win rate for such a great team. Their bowlers didn’t bowl out the opposition team often enough.

Have you ever looked into the win rates of the era and see why there were so many draws?
Especially in the WI?

It would be instructive for you to take a look.