New Zealand doom and gloom thread

[thierry henry]

Yeah and then EVIL BazMax and CONNIVING Hesson decided to drop him for most of the last year of Barrie Maximus's tenure.

 

[SteveNZ]

Wagner directly credits baz for wagnerball in his book

in ur face

SUCKED IN TH.

Haha, I don't actually mean this. That's cool if Wags said that, but TH has very skillfully laid down an argument that it doesn't marry up with the evidence of how much he did - or didn't - play under Baz. It is almost like Baz had the idea, but initially wasn't bold enough to implement it. And that went throughout Baz's tenure. Wags didn't play a single Test on the 2015 Australian tour - the last summer of Baz's captaincy/Test career - and it's hard to argue that he wouldn't have done better than Trent's average of 37, Doug's of 51 or Tim's of 60. That's a significant blip when Neil averaged 24 v Australia.

 

[thierry henry]

It's an accepted fact that WagnerBall started under Baz I don't think this is in dispute

 

[Bahnz]

Haha, I don't actually mean this. That's cool if Wags said that, but TH has very skillfully laid down an argument that it doesn't marry up with the evidence of how much he did - or didn't - play under Baz. It is almost like Baz had the idea, but initially wasn't bold enough to implement it. And that went throughout Baz's tenure. Wags didn't play a single Test on the 2015 Australian tour - the last summer of Baz's captaincy/Test career - and it's hard to argue that he wouldn't have done better than Trent's average of 37, Doug's of 51 or Tim's of 60. That's a significant blip when Neil averaged 24 v Australia.

I think it's also that it took Wagner a while to figure out how to make Wagnerball work on a consistent basis. After the 13/14 home season, Wagner spent a whole year on a new physical conditioning program to try and get his body ready for what he was about to put it through, and I suspect he wasn't quite there yet at the start of the 14/15 season. That colored Hesson's subsequent selection decisions, and he probably would've figured (as we all did) that while Wagnerball might be able to put the wind up callow subcontinental tourists, the Aussies and the Brits would have it for breakfast.

 

[thierry henry]

So what we're saying is cowardly and indecisive leadership by McHess led to our disappointing test results between the 2015 World Cup and McCullum's retirement and the related utter failure to capitalise on the massive public goodwill at the time.

 

[thierry henry]

....and then Captain Kane Steadied The Ship for a couple of years and saw us through the dying days of Evil Hess before our hero Steady Stead took over and they led us into our most glorious era.

 

[SteveNZ]

Well, at least I now know that my computer is operational when I puke on it.

 

[SteveNZ]

So what we're saying is cowardly and indecisive leadership by McHess led to our disappointing test results between the 2015 World Cup and McCullum's retirement and the related utter failure to capitalise on the massive public goodwill at the time.

I mean, there's some relevance that two of those series' were against Australia. A solid 2-0 home win over Sri Lanka (which I cannot remember a single bit of) and the other was England in England, 1-all which to be fair to your point, was absolutely blown in the first Test from a position of dominance.

I have to admit Barrie Maximus makes me giggle uncontrollably when I read it.

 

[thierry henry]

I mean, there's some relevance that two of those series' were against Australia. A solid 2-0 home win over Sri Lanka (which I cannot remember a single bit of) and the other was England in England, 1-all which to be fair to your point, was absolutely blown in the first Test from a position of dominance.

Yeah 1-1 in England looks decent in retrospect but that series really pissed me off at the time. We were flying and England were at a low ebb and we really bombed that first test and what should've been a series win. Plus, the ODI series was the start of them adopting WhiteBall BazBall.

tbf they then went on to win the Ashes so maybe my expectations were just too high. And then the seemingly mediocre Aus team that had lost the Ashes, steamrolled us home and away. Again, seems normal now, but felt very disappointing at the time.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah 1-1 in England looks decent in retrospect but that series really pissed me off at the time. We were flying and England were at a low ebb and we really bombed that first test and what should've been a series win. Plus, the ODI series was the start of them adopting WhiteBall BazBall.

tbf they then went on to win the Ashes so maybe my expectations were just too high. And then the seemingly mediocre Aus team that had lost the Ashes, steamrolled us home and away. Again, seems normal now, but felt very disappointing at the time.

Agreed - the Lord's Test still pisses me off to this day. I think this was the first time I realised our tail enders were a bunch of pea hearts and had no desire to bat with the team's best interests (although this may have happened before)

Bearing in mind, of course, that we would likely have won in Adelaide '15 and earned a 1-all series draw if not for Nigel Llong. I have no apology to make for bringing this up regularly.

 

[thierry henry]

Agreed - the Lord's Test still pisses me off to this day. I think this was the first time I realised our tail enders were a bunch of pea hearts and had no desire to bat with the team's best interests (although this may have happened before)

Bearing in mind, of course, that we would likely have won in Adelaide '15 and earned a 1-all series draw if not for Nigel Llong. I have no apology to make for bringing this up regularly.

Yeah the series in Australia felt disappointing relative to expectations but you look back on it and we were actually competitive. Coulda/shoulda/woulda won the 3rd test and piled up huge runs on a flat deck in the 2nd test. I think what was most disappointing was our seamers being so ineffective in the first 2 tests at a time when Southee and Boult were flying.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

A solid 2-0 home win over Sri Lanka (which I cannot remember a single bit of)

In one test BMac went nuts and would've beaten Astle's fastest 200.

In the other duble hundred for Sangakkara and a big SL lead at the Basin followed by a KW 200 and huge partnership with Watling. I remember driving to and from the beach and listening to Sanga bat

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah the series in Australia felt disappointing relative to expectations but you look back on it and we were actually competitive. Coulda/shoulda/woulda won the 3rd test and piled up huge runs on a flat deck in the 2nd test. I think what was most disappointing was our seamers being so ineffective in the first 2 tests at a time when Southee and Boult were flying.

Boult had his stress fracture during that England tour and was struggling to crack 130kmh for a lot of the Australia series. That was never gonna cut it in Australia. Southee probably the greater disappointment, especially in the return series in New Zealand. Completely lost his seam release and ended up bowling pies on the kinds of wickets that he would normally dine out on.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

tbf they then went on to win the Ashes so maybe my expectations were just too high. And then the seemingly mediocre Aus team that had lost the Ashes, steamrolled us home and away. Again, seems normal now, but felt very disappointing at the time.

Clarke and Rogers also retired after that Ashes - it wasn't a great side

 

[Bahnz]

In the other duble hundred for Sangakkara and a big SL lead at the Basin followed by a KW 200 and huge partnership with Watling. I remember driving to and from the beach and listening to Sanga bat

Sanga's innings in that game has to be the best I've ever seen live. I went to see it with a Sri Lankan friend of mine, and shortly after he scored his hundred (with SL about 220/6) I think, she said he was batting so well she thought he'd score a double. I just rolled my eyes at her. She's never let me forget it.

 

[Chubb]

Sanga's innings in that game has to be the best I've ever seen live. I went to see it with a Sri Lankan friend of mine, and shortly after he scored his hundred (with SL about 220/6) I think, she said he was batting so well she thought he'd score a double. I just rolled my eyes at her. She's never let me forget it.

I was also there that day, and consider it the best innings I have seen live.

Had hospo tickets from work for the day, and was desperate to see Sanga make runs. Remember following the last few overs of the evening before, hoping he wouldn't get out.

 

[thierry henry]

In one test BMac went nuts and would've beaten Astle's fastest 200.

In the other duble hundred for Sangakkara and a big SL lead at the Basin followed by a KW 200 and huge partnership with Watling. I remember driving to and from the beach and listening to Sanga bat

Wrong series, that was the previous year

 

[thierry henry]

In the series in question, we won 2-0. The first test appears to have been pretty unmemorable beyond Guptill scoring 150 (!), the second test was the ChameeraBall test where Chameera, Wags, and everyone else all decided to bowl bouncers. Sangakkara had retired.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Wrong series, that was the previous year

Ok, all good. They played them a lot those days. Now, it always the Poms

 

[thierry henry]

Ok, all good. They played them a lot those days.

Those two series were the only times Sri Lanka came here in a 12 year period from 2006 to 2018.

(sorry for being an insufferable turd, I just can't abide incorrect information on the internet)