Shane Warne vs Sachin Tendulkar

[OverratedSanity]

If Norwood's on fire, you can't really get that close, as it's fire everywhere.

Makes sense?

Not even a little

 

[sayon basak]

Not even a little

@GIMH he'd know.

 

[sayon basak]

Andy Flower is the best ever wicket keeper batsman. Not only is he the only keeper to average 50+ in the history of the game, the fact that he was able to do with no one else in his team being a half decent batsman and knowing he did not have any world class bowlers to dismiss the opposition made his feats much greater. Since his team couldn’t dismiss the opposition easily, he had to keep for long periods of time and then had to bat as the lone warrior.

@capt_Luffy @kyear2

 

[subshakerz]

Andy Flower is the best ever wicket keeper batsman. Not only is he the only keeper to average 50+ in the history of the game, the fact that he was able to do with no one else in his team being a half decent batsman and knowing he did not have any world class bowlers to dismiss the opposition made his feats much greater. Since his team couldn’t dismiss the opposition easily, he had to keep for long periods of time and then had to bat as the lone warrior.

He wasn't a worldclass keeper like Gilly though.

 

[DrWolverine]

He wasn't a worldclass keeper like Gilly though.

Was Andy Flower a bad wicket keeper? I don’t think so. There is an assumption he was not great. AFAIK he was a good keeper and did not miss much.

I do not think there has ever been a cricketer that carried as much burden as he did with that team. Not even Hadlee. Not only was he the world class batsman but he was also the wicket keeper and also was the captain in one third of the matches he played.

He did not have the luxury of having Waugh or Ponting as captain. He did not have the luxury of playing freely because the likes of Hayden, Langer, Martyn and other accumulated tons of runs and certainly did not have the luxury knowing McGrath and Warne could dismiss any opposition. All this should be taken into account as well. Maybe if he did have all this, he could have been a greater keeper as well. Imagine having to play long innings and then having to keep for days because his team wasn’t good enough to get 10 wickets.

 

[Johan]

De Villiers > Flower in both Batsmenship and keeping.

 

[DrWolverine]

ABD : WK in 24 out of 114 Tests

Flower : WK in 55 out of 63 Tests

Two different styles of batting as well

 

[Johan]

I assure you, if Flower had a keeper who was competent he'd have a similar number.

 

[sayon basak]

De Villiers > Flower in both Batsmenship and keeping.

Really overlooked while talking about wicket keeper bat. He literally averages 57.4 (Sangakkara's career average) as a designated keeper in 24 matches.

 

[DrWolverine]

ABD : 24 Tests and 39 innings

Gilchrist : 96 Tests and 137 innings

Flower : 55 Tests and 100 innings

 

[Coronis]

Andy Flower is the best ever wicket keeper batsman. Not only is he the only keeper to average 50+ in the history of the game, the fact that he was able to do with no one else in his team being a half decent batsman and knowing he did not have any world class bowlers to dismiss the opposition made his feats much greater. Since his team couldn’t dismiss the opposition easily, he had to keep for long periods of time and then had to bat as the lone warrior.

I think Heath Streak was definitely a world class bowler.

 

[DrWolverine]

Streak was a good bowler. Not world class.

 

[Coronis]

Streak was a good bowler. Not world class.

Must have different definitions of world class.

 

[kyear2]

If we were to use that logic Andy Flower is a greater cricketer than Viv Richards and Brian Lara.

Since Andy is the greatest wicket keeper batsman and we can argue there are quite a few batsman who can be considered better than Viv Richards & Brian Lara.

Is he really?

I don't rate him for the wicketkeeper portion.

 

[kyear2]

Was Andy Flower a bad wicket keeper? I don’t think so. There is an assumption he was not great. AFAIK he was a good keeper and did not miss much.

I do not think there has ever been a cricketer that carried as much burden as he did with that team. Not even Hadlee. Not only was he the world class batsman but he was also the wicket keeper and also was the captain in one third of the matches he played.

He did not have the luxury of having Waugh or Ponting as captain. He did not have the luxury of playing freely because the likes of Hayden, Langer, Martyn and other accumulated tons of runs and certainly did not have the luxury knowing McGrath and Warne could dismiss any opposition. All this should be taken into account as well. Maybe if he did have all this, he could have been a greater keeper as well. Imagine having to play long innings and then having to keep for days because his team wasn’t good enough to get 10 wickets.

No one's questioning his batting, but his keeping was significantly below world class, and not in the same area code of Gilly.

And while one could argue that if he didn't have the burden he could have been better, but he wasn't a natural or good keeper.

Can't grade him on the batting alone. Gilly, Knott, even Sanga leagues above him.

 

[capt_Luffy]

@capt_Luffy @kyear2

If your definition of a WK batsman is the batting output while keeping the wickets, I can't see any other acceptable answer really.

 

[subshakerz]

Really overlooked while talking about wicket keeper bat. He literally averages 57.4 (Sangakkara's career average) as a designated keeper in 24 matches.

ABD was a safe keeper too.

 

[kyear2]

If your definition of a WK batsman is the batting output while keeping the wickets, I can't see any other acceptable answer really.

But who's definition is that?

 

[Prince EWS]

Can someone explain what the case for Warne is?

Wickets.

 

[capt_Luffy]

But who's definition is that?

The most basic one. A wicketkeeper as a batsman