Graham Gooch vs Vernon Philander

[Johan]

that’s like saying it’s the best bacon sandwich to buy in Mecca but leaving that aside

Gower
Pietersen

were both def better, Thorpe and Stewart probably better

that man is and was a Bum ass

 

[ma1978]

that man is and was a Bum ass

and a genius cricketer

and a victim of the English wanting a chummy culture and hating talent

 

[PlayerComparisons]

What’s with the obsession about a rando like Gooch on this website?

I think it might be because England haven’t produced many great batsmen (or bowlers) in the modern era

Australia have produced plenty of great batsmen in the modern era so they don’t have to hype up guys like M Waugh/Boon who were arguably as good as Gooch/Gower

 

[Johan]

and a genius cricketer

and a victim of the English wanting a chummy culture and hating talent

eh, he was good for who he was but nothing special, would probably go down as a 43-44 averaging bat if he wasn't dropped for being a **** earlier.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Just here to say Cook was the best bat between Boycott and Root.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Just here to say Cook was the best bat between Boycott and Root.

This would probably be the consensus opinion outside of CW tbf

 

[BazBall21]

eh, he was good for who he was but nothing special, would probably go down as a 43-44 averaging bat if he wasn't dropped for being a **** earlier.

I think England managed him wrong and he shouldn't have been banished

 

[Coronis]

This would probably be the consensus opinion outside of CW tbf

I think you really underestimate how KP is viewed outside of CW if you think that.

In fact, opinion here would be much more on Cook’s side than in the greater cricketing community.

 

[BazBall21]

Pietersen is the highest rated England batsman to debut between Boycott and Root.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea that’s probably true actually

 

[BazBall21]

Boon is underrated because of the volume of great modern Australian batsmen. I rate him highly.

 

[Johan]

I think England managed him wrong and he shouldn't have been banished

Probably, Banishment was probably a step too far but i don't really feel for him because he has shown his questionable character too many times

 

[ma1978]

Probably, Banishment was probably a step too far but i don't really feel for him because he has shown his questionable character too many times

well it is reflective of the broader tolerance for mediocrity in English sporting culture (and many other aspects of English culture)

 

[BazBall21]

Probably, Banishment was probably a step too far but i don't really feel for him because he has shown his questionable character too many times

Pietersen didn't help himself and he had a track record of being a disruptive character; but you have to persist where possible with a player that good.

I think England (board, coaches, media etc) were quite hostile towards him for the IPL gigs and when a flamboyant shot went wrong etc which was muddled thinking as he was regularly rimmed when the same exact shot went to the boundary instead, which it often did. Both those issues would likely have been milder to non-existent today and he was unfortunate in that regard. He didn't suit captaincy as well which didn't go to plan and heightened tensions. A number of teammates inside that dressing room (Broad and Swann in particular) were no angels themselves and aggravated the situation. Banishing him at a convenient time (high-profile team humiliation) when he himself didn't really do anything wrong was also quite weak and dysfunctional tbh.

Certainly a candidate for best England batsman in the time between Boycott & Root. There's no clear winner and he would win by a landslide if we conducted a broad worldwide survey.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Pietersen didn't help himself and he had a track record of being a disruptive character, but you have to persist where possible with a player that good.

I think England (board, coaches, media etc) were quite hostile towards him for the IPL gigs and when a flamboyant shot went wrong etc. Both those issues would likely have been milder to non-existent today and he was unfortunate in that regard. He didn't suit captaincy as well which didn't go to plan and heightened tensions. A number of teammates inside that dressing room (Broad and Swann in particular) were no angels themselves and aggravated the situation. Banishing him at a convenient time (high-profile team humiliation) when he himself didn't really do anything wrong was also quite weak and dysfunctional tbh.

Certainly a candidate for best England batsman in the time between Boycott & Root. There's no clear winner and he would win by a landslide if we conducted a broad worldwide survey.

Probably in 2010. Now Cook may even come on top.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Cook would definitely beat Boycott but might still lose to Pietersen

 

[BazBall21]

Probably in 2010. Now Cook may even come on top.

My money would be on Pietersen.

 

[capt_Luffy]

My money would be on Pietersen.

I think it would be quite close either way. You are really underestimating Cook's popularity for his sheer quantity of runs. I saw a fan voted list for 30 Greatest Cricketers and Cook struck in, as he did in a fan voted English AT XI at the cost of Hobbs.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think it would be quite close either way. You are really underestimating Cook's popularity for his sheer quantity of runs. I saw a fan voted list for 30 Greatest Cricketers and Cook struck in, as he did in a fan voted English AT XI at the cost of Hobbs.

On revisiting the team after 6 years, I see KP made it as well......

1. Alastair Cook
2. Sir Leonard Hutton
3. David Gower
4. Kevin Pietersen
5. Joe Root
6. Sir Ian Botham
7. Alan Knott (w)
8. Graeme Swann
9. Fred Trueman
10. James Anderson
11. Bob Willis

This team I was talking about precisely, elected by none other than ECB; what a disgusting joke!! I could make a much MUCH better team without using a single of these players! Won't even need Grace or Ranji......

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Herbert Sutcliffe
3. Wally Hammond*
4. Ken Barrington
5. Denis Compton
6. Frank Woolley
7. Les Ames+
8. Harold Larwood
9. Jim Laker
10. Brian Statham
11. Sydney Barnes

 

[BazBall21]

I think it would be quite close either way. You are really underestimating Cook's popularity for his sheer quantity of runs. I saw a fan voted list for 30 Greatest Cricketers and Cook struck in, as he did in a fan voted English AT XI at the cost of Hobbs.

Another advantage Cook has when it comes to stuff like that is he is a very popular figure whereas Pietersen's character polarises opinion a lot. The BBC shortlist was put together just months after Cook's retirement. Being so fresh in the memory likely broadened nostalgia etc.

I suspect KP is rated higher. I know a lot of people who still rate him over Root etc.