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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Australia
kyear2 said:
Excellent idea, Less so for the execution in different ways, but alas.

But just a quick question, what did Lillee do either of you? Just saying, lol.
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Australia XI

Hayden
Simpson^⁵
Bradman
Smith^
Chappell^
Border ©
Gilchrist (wk)
Davidson ³
Warne ⁴
Lillee ¹
McGrath ²


West Indies (5/7)
Richards | Lara | Sobers | Marshall | Ambrose
(Garner | Greenidge)

South Africa (5/6)
Richards | Smith | Kallis | Steyn | Procter
(Donald)

England (3)
Hobbs | Hutton | Hammond

India (2)
Gavaskar | Tendulkar

Pakistan (2)
Imran | Wasim

Sri Lanka (1/2)
Muralitharan
(Sangakkara)

New Zealand (1)
Hadlee


Think this looks about right
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
Lindwall was as good as Lillee, performed in more varied places and can bat quite well. Definitely ahead as an overall player.
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Guess any way of looking at is us that Lindwall was the GOAT until Lillee came along, so hence....

Plus I have never been in love with his WPM.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Captain
kyear2 said:
Guess any way of looking at is us that Lindwall was the GOAT until Lillee came along, so hence....

Plus I have never been in love with his WPM.
Click to expand...
WPM is valid, but Lindwall have a better record all around. Lillee benefits from a very Ashes centric cricket view, but he necessarily didn't play in a time when England had the best batting line-up. That being WI, against whom is record isn't really Great. Good but not great, even at home. Similarly, the second strongest batting was India and he never toured there and played only thrice overall. Not great against Pakistan either (even at home). Purely as bowlers I will go Lillee just, but Lindwall was also pretty close to an all-rounder, so overall him.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
WPM is valid, but Lindwall have a better record all around. Lillee benefits from a very Ashes centric cricket view, but he necessarily didn't play in a time when England had the best batting line-up. That being WI, against whom is record isn't really Great. Good but not great, even at home. Similarly, the second strongest batting was India and he never toured there and played only thrice overall. Not great against Pakistan either (even at home). Purely as bowlers I will go Lillee just, but Lindwall was also pretty close to an all-rounder, so overall him.
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Can't argue with the overall argument.

Lillee is just seen by many in his country, especially from that era to be their greatest.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Coronis said:
Lindwall had far more competition for wickets. Lets also remember wrt his record he played until 39, 5 years older than Lillee.
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I'm well aware re the competition, and his age etc... I also conceded to @capt_Luffy that his argument had merit.

But Lillee is a giant and peer ratings do kinda matter, and for many he's the best Australia has produced. I disagree but he was the man seen to have succeeded Lindwall as the GOAT.
My only point.
 
Q

Qlder

International Debutant
kyear2 said:
But Lillee is a giant and peer ratings do kinda matter, and for many he's the best Australia has produced. I disagree but he was the man seen to have succeeded Lindwall as the GOAT.
My only point.
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You raise a point that CW seems to always ignore. I grew up watching Lillee with the highly respected commentators Richie Benaud, Ian Chappell and Bill Lawry all saying how great Lillee was and they all saw Lindwall play (Benaud played 30 tests with him). I clearly remember them saying Lillee was the best.

Note that Richie Benaud also put Lillee in his 20th century World XI team (he picked 4 Aussies, Bradman, Gilchrist, Warne and Lillee)
 
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Q

Qlder

International Debutant
Fuller Pilch said:
Gilchrist hardly played in the 20th century
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Yeah those 5 Tests (and 76 ODI's) must have been special 😉

Benaud picked his team in August 2004 so he probably rated Gilly up to that point (cheated on his own criteria)

Edit: Acually had a deeper look and while the first article I saw called it greatest XI of 20th century, other articles just call it his "greatest ever XI" so Gilchrist fits when named in late 2004
 
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