*Official* New Zealand tour of India 2024

[silentstriker]

Yeaaaaaah. Time to start over. The era of these seniors is over. Let’s move on. This is humiliating to witness at home.

Last time India lost 3-0 in a three match series at home was in the 1960s.

Just absolute embarrassment.

 

[Immenso]

Of the 10 dismissals for NZ. 8 were blocks, 1 a leave, and the most aggressive was a dab to slip.

Have only watched the highlights, so can't form my own impression if they were too passive (not enough sweeps and reverses) or appropriate to the conditions.

But that is quite a remarkable set of passive dismissals.

 

[straw man]

For a while I would've dismissed the idea of Young owning the 3 position permanently post-Williamson as he failed so comprehensively as an opener, but he's looked the part here. It's not like he hasn't had to deal with new-ball seam movement this series either.

Though I just looked it up and Young is about to turn 32, he's only 2 years and 3 months younger than Williamson, so if he succeeds him it won't be for long.

 

[straw man]

Of the 10 dismissals for NZ. 8 were blocks, 1 a leave, and the most aggressive was a dab to slip.

Have only watched the highlights, so can't form my own impression if they were too passive (not enough sweeps and reverses) or appropriate to the conditions.

But that is quite a remarkable set of passive dismissals.

Still scored at 3.5 per over and Young + Mitchell used their feet a fair bit, hit several sixes and rotated the strike well (as did Latham). Thought their approach was fine.

 

[Immenso]

Though I just looked it up and Young is about to turn 32, he's only 2 years and 3 months younger than Williamson, so if he succeeds him it won't be for long.

In stats. He now averages 43 in test cricket when not opening. Which is 7 of his 19 tests.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I don't understand why O'Rourke is in this team. He bowled a grand total of four overs in the last test and he was only given two overs with the new ball here. If Latham isn't going to bowl him then why is he in the team?

You could make a reasonable bet before the test that this would be a wicket where spin with the new ball is better than pace, but as we saw in the first test that's not guaranteed so going in with only one pacer would be an unnecessary risk. Especially since we have two all round spin options to lengthen the batting order.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

also RE young I'd like to give kudos to the current selection policy as a reason for his success here. He would've 100% been Sinclair'd 15 or 20 years ago.

 

[vandem]

also RE young I'd like to give kudos to the current selection policy as a reason for his success here. He would've 100% been Sinclair'd 15 or 20 years ago.

What do you mean by "Sinclair'd" ?

My memory of Sinclair is a dominant domestic career, and a great start to test career (3 centuries in first 4 series), perhaps unlucky to lose his test spot in 2002 but hadn't scored many runs in Australia and against Bangledesh and selectors couldn't drop Vincent after he also had a great start to test career (century in Perth), and wanted to squeeze in Matt Horne as returning opener. Perhaps Vincent and Horne were better at fitting into the Fleming team culture?

Then Sinclair 2nd half of test career was like Young's first half of career, semi-regular appearances to cover illness / injury, a few 50s but not enough runs to claim a spot in starting XI.

Sinclair stats:
1999-00 and 2000-01: 13 tests, 973 runs @ 51, 3 x 100s, 1 x 50
2001-02 to 2009-10: 20 tests, 662 runs @ 20, 3 x 50s

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Though I just looked it up and Young is about to turn 32, he's only 2 years and 3 months younger than Williamson, so if he succeeds him it won't be for long.

His name tricks you.

 

[Bahnz]

Hell, O'Rourke could be horrible to bat against on this pitch if a bit of variable bounce occurs.

I was a bit surprised that O'Rourke only got 2 overs. Jaiswal didn't look comfortable against him at all. Agreed that if he can get it on target he could be nasty, especially if a couple scoot low like they did for Akash.

 

[Bahnz]

Young now averages 38 in India and 25 in New Zealand.

 

[Flem274*]

Young is more a #4 but a gun reserve in any case.

 

[BeeGee]

You could make a reasonable bet before the test that this would be a wicket where spin with the new ball is better than pace, but as we saw in the first test that's not guaranteed so going in with only one pacer would be an unnecessary risk. Especially since we have two all round spin options to lengthen the batting order.

Southee would have been a better choice, at least you get a good fielder and a better batsman (low bar). O'Rourke can't bat and is a poor fielder, so if Latham won't bowl him he is a wasted selection and brings no value to the playing 11. Either bowl him or don't select him.

 

[hendrix]

Southee would have been a better choice, at least you get a good fielder and a better batsman (low bar). O'Rourke can't bat and is a poor fielder, so if Latham won't bowl him he is a wasted selection and brings no value to the playing 11. Either bowl him or don't select him.

One suspects Southee would also be the most capable of bowling a miserly wicket-to-wicket spell holding up an end for Ajaz.

Don't know if Henry or O'rourke really possess that skill, and none of the other spinners really have it either.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

If you're going to pick a new ball bowler and not bowl him, Southee would have been a better choice, at least you get a good fielder and a better batsman (low bar). O'Rourke can't bat and is a poor fielder, so if Latham won't bowl him he is a wasted selection and brings no value to the playing 11. Either bowl him or don't select him.

You pick a team to cover the expected range of conditions the best you can, and then use your bowlers in response to what the conditions actually end up being. Either you go in with an extra pacer and risk not using him, or you go in with an extra spinner and risk being blindsided by conditions like India was in the first test.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

What do you mean by "Sinclair'd" ?

A guy who averaged 48(!) in NZ FC in an area where almost no-one averaged over 40 who ended up with a test average of 32 from 33 tests spread over a decade. That screams mismanagement of talent to me.

How about this for a stat - after his initial run of 18 matches, his next longest streak of selection was 4 matches.

Then Sinclair 2nd half of test career was like Young's first half of career, semi-regular appearances to cover illness / injury, a few 50s but not enough runs to claim a spot in starting XI.

The difference is that while Young has also been in and out of the team he's clearly been backed by management and communicated with about where he stands.

 

[Immenso]

Ajaz Patel passes Dipak Patel on the NZ all time wicket career wickets chart with the Siraj wicket.

(And he went past Stephen Boock with the Jaiswal wicket, is now the 4th most prolific nz test spin bowler).

 

[NZTailender]

One suspects Southee would also be the most capable of bowling a miserly wicket-to-wicket spell holding up an end for Ajaz.

Don't know if Henry or O'rourke really possess that skill, and none of the other spinners really have it either.

I hope they do use the pace bowlers more because I feel like it might be harder for the batsmen to settle against two variations of speeds. Patel at one end, rotate everyone else at the other.

 

[King Kane]

Not a great start with 12 off the first over and Pant off to a flyer.

 

[NZTailender]

Not a great start with 12 off the first over and Pant off to a flyer.

Patels just making sure the prey are fattened up for Sodhi to feast