The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Coronis]

True. I guess I chose McCullum this time because he was the more aggressive, dynamic batsman. But as designated keepers, McCullum averaged 34 whilst Watling averaged 39. I could easily be swayed to choose Watling instead if only going by their record as keepers.

GM Turner
B Sutcliffe
KS Williamson
MD Crowe
LRPL Taylor
BJ Watling (wk)
CL Cairns
DL Vettori
RJ Hadlee
N Wagner
TA Boult

Who would captain the team? Crowe seems the first choice but he had a difficult personality so he might clash with Turner and Hadlee.

Did he clash with Hadlee much when they played together?

 

[Days of Grace]

Did he clash with Hadlee much when they played together?

He wasn't captain when they played together.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

True. I guess I chose McCullum this time because he was the more aggressive, dynamic batsman. But as designated keepers, McCullum averaged 34 whilst Watling averaged 39. I could easily be swayed to choose Watling instead if only going by their record as keepers.

GM Turner
B Sutcliffe
KS Williamson
MD Crowe
LRPL Taylor
BJ Watling (wk)
CL Cairns
DL Vettori
RJ Hadlee
N Wagner
TA Boult

Who would captain the team? Crowe seems the first choice but he had a difficult personality so he might clash with Turner and Hadlee.

Surely Williamson would be the best option as captain.

 

[Coronis]

So generally Australia is seen as the best ATG XI I believe. (some people might say Windies idk?)

So I was just thinking how many players each country by itself could arguably contribute to a combined XI with themselves and Australia.

For reference my Australia XI is

Hayden
Simpson
Bradman*
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist+
Lindwall
Davidson
Warne
McGrath

England (3) - Hobbs, Sutcliffe/Hutton, Hammond
South Africa (4) - Smith, Kallis, Steyn, Donald
West Indies (4) - Lara, Sobers, Marshall, Ambrose
New Zealand (1) - Hadlee
India (2) - Gavaskar, Tendulkar
Pakistan (2) - Imran, Wasim
Sri Lanka (1) - Sangakkara
Zimbabwe (0)
Bangladesh (0)
Ireland (0)
Afghanistan (0)

 

[capt_Luffy]

So generally Australia is seen as the best ATG XI I believe. (some people might say Windies idk?)

So I was just thinking how many players each country by itself could arguably contribute to a combined XI with themselves and Australia.

For reference my Australia XI is

Hayden
Simpson
Bradman*
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist+
Lindwall
Davidson
Warne
McGrath

England (3) - Hobbs, Sutcliffe/Hutton, Hammond
South Africa (4) - Smith, Kallis, Steyn, Donald
West Indies (4) - Lara, Sobers, Marshall, Ambrose
New Zealand (1) - Hadlee
India (2) - Gavaskar, Tendulkar
Pakistan (2) - Imran, Wasim
Sri Lanka (1) - Sangakkara
Zimbabwe (0)
Bangladesh (0)
Ireland (0)
Afghanistan (0)

Mine is:

Hayden
Trumper
Bradman*
Smith
Border
Miller
Gilchrist+
Lindwall
Warne
O'Reilly
McGrath

So:
West Indies (5/6): Sobers, Marshall, Lara, Ambrose, Viv, Greenidge (arguably)
England (4/5): Hobbs, Hutton, Hammond, Barnes, Grace (if counts)
South Africa (4/4): Kallis, Steyn, Pollock/Procter, Smith/Barry (Barry and Procter questionable, but two others Saffas can take their spots)
India (2): Tendulkar, Gavaskar
Pakistan (2): Imran, Wasim
New Zealand (1): Hadlee
Sri Lanka (1/2): Murali, Sangakkara (arguably)

 

[Prince EWS]

So generally Australia is seen as the best ATG XI I believe. (some people might say Windies idk?)

So I was just thinking how many players each country by itself could arguably contribute to a combined XI with themselves and Australia.

For reference my Australia XI is

Hayden
Simpson
Bradman*
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist+
Lindwall
Davidson
Warne
McGrath

England (3) - Hobbs, Sutcliffe/Hutton, Hammond
South Africa (4) - Smith, Kallis, Steyn, Donald
West Indies (4) - Lara, Sobers, Marshall, Ambrose
New Zealand (1) - Hadlee
India (2) - Gavaskar, Tendulkar
Pakistan (2) - Imran, Wasim
Sri Lanka (1) - Sangakkara
Zimbabwe (0)
Bangladesh (0)
Ireland (0)
Afghanistan (0)

I reckon SA and WI could provide more openers. I know you've already got Smith but I believe Mitchell is also better than both Aus openers (we'll leave BR out of it for now lol), and Greenidge is probably better than the Aus openers too (or at least whichever one you like less).

 

[Coronis]

I reckon SA and WI could provide more openers. I know you've already got Smith but I believe Mitchell is also better than both Aus openers (we'll leave BR out of it for now lol), and Greenidge is probably better than the Aus openers too (or at least whichever one you like less).

Yeah its my own opinion of rating the players personally ofc. I have Greenidge and Mitchell on that similar level to the other “second tier” openers but not ahead of them. Defs in the conversation though.

Others thought of were Barnes and Murali, but tbh I only really want to pick Barnes when there’s a significant gap between him and the next best option, like in the England XI. And while I might have Murali equal to/a hair ahead of Warne, I’ll keep Warne for the batting when picking a team.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah its my own opinion of rating the players personally. I have Greenidge and Mitchell on that similar level to the other “second tier” openers but not ahead of them.

I think you might be off my Christmas card list for not acknowledging that Mitchell > Hayden. Line in the sand.

 

[Coronis]

I think you might be off my Christmas card list for not acknowledging that Mitchell > Hayden. Line in the sand.

Fair. I won’t really quibble with anyone who wants to rate any of Mitchell, Simpson, Greenidge, Hayden, Sehwag or Smith in any order.

My lines are Boycott and Cook/Trumper.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Fair. I won’t really quibble with anyone who wants to rate any of Mitchell, Simpson, Greenidge, Hayden, Sehwag or Smith in any order.

My lines are Boycott and Cook/Trumper.

I don't think Cook can really be called much worse than Sehwag in any way. And **** you for the Trumper comment!!

 

[capt_Luffy]

I was thinking who would be the worst player to get into each of the Test playing teams.

Australia: Graeme Smith
West Indies: Hugh Tayfield
South Africa: Richie Benaud
England: Kagiso Rabada
India: Jason Gillespie
Pakistan: Vinoo Mankad
New Zealand: Harbhajan Singh
Sri Lanka: Umesh Yadav
Zimbabwe: KL Rahul
Bangladesh: Shardul Thakur
Afghanistan: Ollie Pope
Ireland: Peter Handscomb

 

[Thala_0710]

I was thinking who would be the worst player to get into each of the Test playing teams.

Australia: Graeme Smith
West Indies: Hugh Tayfield
South Africa: Richie Benaud
England: Kagiso Rabada
India: Jason Gillespie
Pakistan: Vinoo Mankad
New Zealand: Harbhajan Singh
Sri Lanka: Umesh Yadav
Zimbabwe: KL Rahul
Bangladesh: Shardul Thakur
Afghanistan: Ollie Pope
Ireland: Peter Handscomb

Those Zim/Ban picks are crazy

 

[kyear2]

So generally Australia is seen as the best ATG XI I believe. (some people might say Windies idk?)

So I was just thinking how many players each country by itself could arguably contribute to a combined XI with themselves and Australia.

For reference my Australia XI is

Hayden
Simpson
Bradman*
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist+
Lindwall
Davidson
Warne
McGrath

England (3) - Hobbs, Sutcliffe/Hutton, Hammond
South Africa (4) - Smith, Kallis, Steyn, Donald
West Indies (4) - Lara, Sobers, Marshall, Ambrose
New Zealand (1) - Hadlee
India (2) - Gavaskar, Tendulkar
Pakistan (2) - Imran, Wasim
Sri Lanka (1) - Sangakkara
Zimbabwe (0)
Bangladesh (0)
Ireland (0)
Afghanistan (0)

Mine is:

Hayden
Trumper
Bradman*
Smith
Border
Miller
Gilchrist+
Lindwall
Warne
O'Reilly
McGrath

So:
West Indies (5/6): Sobers, Marshall, Lara, Ambrose, Viv, Greenidge (arguably)
England (4/5): Hobbs, Hutton, Hammond, Barnes (Grace if counts)
South Africa (4/4): Kallis, Steyn, Pollock/Procter, Smith/Barry (Barry and Procter questionable, but two others Saffas can take their spots)
India (2): Tendulkar, Gavaskar
Pakistan (2): Imran, Wasim
New Zealand (1): Hadlee
Sri Lanka (1/2): Murali, Sangakkara (arguably)

Excellent idea, Less so for the execution in different ways, but alas.

But just a quick question, what did Lillee do either of you? Just saying, lol.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Excellent idea, Less so for the execution in different ways, but alas.

But just a quick question, what did Lillee do either of you? Just saying, lol.

Lindwall was as good as Lillee, performed in more varied places and can bat quite well. Definitely ahead as an overall player.

 

[trundler]

I was thinking who would be the worst player to get into each of the Test playing teams.

Australia: Graeme Smith
West Indies: Hugh Tayfield
South Africa: Richie Benaud
England: Kagiso Rabada
India: Jason Gillespie
Pakistan: Vinoo Mankad
New Zealand: Harbhajan Singh
Sri Lanka: Umesh Yadav
Zimbabwe: KL Rahul
Bangladesh: Shardul Thakur
Afghanistan: Ollie Pope
Ireland: Peter Handscomb

Mankad isn't making the be Pak XI.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Mankad isn't making the be Pak XI.

It's between Mankad and Mushtaq, both around equals in my book. Mankad opens so Yousuf can bat in the middle order.

 

[trundler]

It's between Mankad and Mushtaq, both around equals in my book. Mankad opens so Yousuf can bat in the middle order.

Mushtaq was better against quality sides and Mankad would get nosebleeds opening in an all time XI. I'd say one of Herath or Shakib would be the worst player that definitely makes Pakistan's XI. If you were okay with a 4th pacer than Goddard or Cairns.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Mushtaq was better against quality sides and Mankad would get nosebleeds opening in an all time XI. I'd say one of Herath or Shakib would be the worst player that definitely makes Pakistan's XI. If you were okay with a 4th pacer than Goddard or Cairns.

I disagree. Mankad averages 40 odd while opening, almost double his MO stint. While slightly inflated by runs vs an underwhelming NZ, he do have a century against the Invincibles in Australia and an ATG 184 in England. Mankad is also a better bowler and given Pakistan's long tail, I think will benefit them more than Mushtaq's superior batting. Now, if the key word is 'definitely', he doesn't. He does 'arguably'.

 

[trundler]

slightly

That's an understatement. He barely averages 30 without the NZ bashing. NZ in the 50s weren't professional at all. I respect him as a pioneer for Indian cricket but no way he fits it into an all time XI if modern guys like Yousuf get downgraded so much for scoring soft runs. Jadeja clearly isn't the worst player that makes Pakistan's side but he'd definitely boost Pakistan's side a lot if we're picking spin bowling ARs. As a step down from that I'll take Shakib or Greig (assuming he'd bowl spin).

 

[capt_Luffy]

That's an understatement. He barely averages 30 without the NZ bashing. NZ in the 50s weren't professional at all. I respect him as a pioneer for Indian cricket but no way he fits it into an all time XI if modern guys like Yousuf get downgraded so much for scoring soft runs. Jadeja clearly isn't the worst player that makes Pakistan's side but he'd definitely boost Pakistan's side a lot if we're picking spin bowling ARs. As a step down from that I'll take Shakib or Greig (assuming he'd bowl spin).

Imho, I don't think there is anything huge between Mankad and Greig as cricketers (the latter's Test stats flatter him massively as a batsman given he averaged 28 in non Test FC). I would take Mushtaq ahead of Greig. Shakib is clearly much better though. I do think you are underrating Mankad a bit, he afterall played in a tough era and missed some good years to War (has really good numbers against touring MCC in unofficial Tests). His numbers, especially as a batsman is a bit underwhelming though, can't argue that.