Unpopular Cricket Opinions

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Marshall also had a career much shorter in practicality than the others. He pretty much played all of his career in a peak, but it could be argued that Imran, Hadlee and Murali were better for longer stretches. His lows aren't much low, that's basically what gives him the edge here; but so was the argument of his career being realistically shorter. Also re WPM, a line-up with great bowling does let's the opposition to all out more often. Not a dig, just a bit of contextualisation.

Murali did had a good series in India in the mid 2000s. And for reasons I stated previously, I really don't count his Australia record much.

But a competitive attack can lead to bowlers having lower WPMs individually- more competition among the bowlers. Marshall losing out on longevity vis a vis others agreed, and perhaps that’s why I favour Tendulkar or Hobbs over him in a comparison. But Murali’s overall record in India and Australia are hindering me for having him as a candidate for GOAT. But can definitely understand if others have him as a candidate, and understand where you are coming from. Even I used to rate him outside the top 5(around top 8), but now have: Marshall, Mcgrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Murali/Imran, Ambrose, Donald, Warne, Lillee

 

[sayon basak]

I guess we've all heard the story of the batsman (found it now, Albert Trott) who was purported to have hit a straight six over the Member's stand at Lord's in 1899.

1899: Albert Trott hits a cricket ball over the Lord's Pavilion | Lord's

1899: Albert Trott hits a cricket ball over the Lord's Pavilion

www.lords.org

As the Poms would say, I'm not 'avin that. Looks like an extravagant backlift, but with a light bat, and hasn't gone close to being replicated since (that I know of...) it's fanciful.

Interesting story this. Even claims to have eye witness accounts. How big would that six be measured at if taken seriously?

Also makes me wonder how believable Shahid Afridi hitting 153 meter six is. Heard it was actually measured at somewhere around 120m? Does Brett lee's 130 (or maybe 135) meter six stand first on the list?

 

[SteveNZ]

Interesting story this. Even claims to have eye witness accounts. How big would that six be measured at if taken seriously?

Also makes me wonder how believable Shahid Afridi hitting 153 meter six is. Heard it was actually measured at somewhere around 120m? Does Brett lee's 130 (or maybe 135) meter six stand first on the list?

Yeah, it's got to be mid 100s, like 150m at least if it's gone as far, with the right trajectory to go over the Pavilion? That's only guess work.

I watch a lot of cricket, modern-day cricket with ridiculous bats, big strong guys, biomechanics, bowlers hitting 140+ etc and I haven't seen a six go over 110m or so. Although yeah, there is this one from Brett Lee -

which they reckon is 130 or so. With that one, it's over mid wicket - biomechanically, that's likely to go further if you're hitting that way as you clear your body and hit with more force summation. Hitting straight, without clearing the hip as much, I'd reckon that's harder to hit long.

Was some conjecture about the carbon tape on the back of Lee's bat, too, although I think it was proven to be a marketing jip.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Not the science I was seeking...



OK, I get that. But I suppose you're only able to 'rate them' in the sense of how strong their record was against their peers. It's impossible to rate their actual ability. And you get some wildly exaggerated stories...I guess we've all heard the story of the batsman (found it now, Albert Trott) who was purported to have hit a straight six over the Member's stand at Lord's in 1899.

1899: Albert Trott hits a cricket ball over the Lord's Pavilion | Lord's

1899: Albert Trott hits a cricket ball over the Lord's Pavilion

www.lords.org

As the Poms would say, I'm not 'avin that. Looks like an extravagant backlift, but with a light bat, and hasn't gone close to being replicated since (that I know of...) it's fanciful.

I will be honest, rating players in respect to their peers and what they actually achieve sounds the most scientific to me. Ofcourse some adjustments need to be made when comparing across eras, Trumper and Grace were much better batsmen than their averages raw might suggest trying to take them 101 for eg and vice versa for bowlers. And when it comes to such extravagant stories, I just take them as such, stories. Be it Grace setting up his stump again after getting out or Nayudu hitting a six across a country, these events are highly exaggerated over years, like myths. Though I don't think that means we should ignore contemporary writers, since they provide valuable context from records missing otherwise.

 

[capt_Luffy]

But a competitive attack can lead to bowlers having lower WPMs individually- more competition among the bowlers. Marshall losing out on longevity vis a vis others agreed, and perhaps that’s why I favour Tendulkar or Hobbs over him in a comparison. But Murali’s overall record in India and Australia are hindering me for having him as a candidate for GOAT. But can definitely understand if others have him as a candidate, and understand where you are coming from. Even I used to rate him outside the top 5(around top 8), but now have: Marshall, Mcgrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Murali/Imran, Ambrose, Donald, Warne, Lillee

I mostly ignore Murali's Aussie record. In '97, he toured Australia before he had doosra in his arsenal and was unsuccessful in some very flat pitches in his two matches. In the '07, the Aussie created enormous mental pressure over him with all the chucking fiasco. He was mentally too much broken down to lead a very below average bowling line-up, and was again unsuccessful in his two matches. Between that, in the '05 World XI game, he took 5 wickets. Now, the main reason I have gripe over his Australia record much more, in the 4 matches there, he bowled in the Australian 2nd innings ONCE, that too in a 200 odd chase Australia managed by losing 4 wickets only. A spinner never getting to ball in the 2nd innings is a HUGE handicap imo. That, alongside the immaturity of the first and mental situation of the second, I just mostly ignore his record in Australia. I am not saying you should also ignore it, but don't think you should really penalise him heavily for that. India is a very valid criticism, though unlike Warne, Murali actually had a good albeit high averaging series in the mid 2000s. I mostly rate him as a genuine contender for his mammoth wicket tally, WPM, home record, peak and playing for a severely bad bowling line-up. But don't think there's anything wrong with rating him equal to Steyn/Imran.

 

[Coronis]

iirc one of my favpurite stories I read as a kid was someone… I think it was George Bonnor? Apparently hit a ball so high that the batsmen were completing their third run before it was caught.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Actually, I've got an opinion that's considered tantamount to treason in Australia. All but the very best leg spinners suck and will lose you matches far more often than they'll win them, and you're almost always better off with a decent finger spinner.

The tough thing about selecting and captaining spinners in lower levels of cricket is that it needs to be done with a somewhat altruistic bigger picture viewpoint. Proper spin bowling (even moreso legspin) is very high variance and lower return on average than medium pace. Even spinners with real potential will have plenty of days where they get smashed. To find the good ones you need to be prepared to take a hit to immediate results.