James Anderson vs Kagiso Rabada

[capt_Luffy]

Philander was terrible in his last two years, Morkel retired two years into Rabada's career, Steyn retired few years into Rabada's career as well, Jansen played 13 tests...Nortje and Ngidi have lower WPMs and matches.

lame argument tbh, you need a better excuse than WPM for Rabada>Anderson.

I mean ofcourse, because except Broad, Anderson was sharing wickets with *checks notes* Chris Woakes, Moeen Ali, Ben Stokes and occasionally Mark Wood.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Rabada certainly had more competition for wickets. Rabada has a better WPM because he’s a more potent bowler which is reflected in his far superior strike rate.

Rating Anderson higher is fine but not sure why there’s all these excuses for his WPM tbh.

 

[Johan]

I mean ofcourse, because except Broad, Anderson was sharing wickets with *checks notes* Chris Woakes, Moeen Ali, Ben Stokes and occasionally Mark Wood.

why did we ignore Broad

tho Woakes takes 4 wickets a game at home, same for Broad who has 4 WPM at home.

 

[Johan]

Rabada certainly had more competition for wickets. Rabada has a better WPM because he’s a more potent bowler which is reflected in his far superior strike rate.

Rating Anderson higher is fine but not sure why there’s all these excuses for his WPM tbh.

You have a case for Rabada to make or need Luffy to carry you?

 

[capt_Luffy]

why did we ignore Broad

We don't, exactly because all the other English bowlers were mid asf. Anderson had a higher wicket competition is simply not true. Ngidi, Nortje, Jansen, Olivier aren't great bowlers, but they certainly are quite fearsome at especially home. Philander played quite a too many matches with Rabada and now if I get to Rabada's earlier days and include the likes of Morkel and especially Steyn....... Maharaj is also significantly better than any English spinner post Swann. Anderson has many things going for, but Rabada was just a better strike bowler.

 

[Johan]

We don't, exactly because all the other English bowlers were mid asf. Anderson had a higher wicket competition is simply not true. Ngidi, Nortje, Jansen, Olivier aren't great bowlers, but they certainly are quite fearsome at especially home. Philander played quite a too many matches with Rabada and now if I get to Rabada's earlier days and include the likes of Morkel and especially Steyn....... Maharaj is also significantly better than any English spinner post Swann. Anderson has many things going for, but Rabada was just a better strike bowler.

and...Anderson played with Swann too.

with none of those cricketers Rabada played more matches than 20 with afaik, 16 with Nortje, 13 with Jansen, 17 with Ngidi.

Anderson has played 138 of his 188 games with Broad, 56 with Swann on top, Rabada having some 3.5WPM bowlers (Nortje) and a 2.5 WPM bowler (Ngidi) for 20% of his career won't have as big an impact as nearly 140 games with Broad and 50+ with Swann.

you're talking of their home effectiveness as the exact same concept doesn't apply to Anderson with Woakes

 

[PlayerComparisons]

The reason Rabada has a better WPM is because of his better strike rate. He doesn’t actually bowl more overs than Anderson so using bowling support is such a weak excuse.

Rabada’s overs per match: 30.7

Anderson’s over per match: 35.5

So Anderson bowls 5 more overs a game but ends with a WPM of more than 0.75 less lmao

 

[Coronis]

The reason Rabada has a better WPM is because of his better strike rate. He doesn’t actually bowl more overs than Anderson so using bowling support is such a weak excuse.

Rabada’s overs per match: 30.7

Anderson’s over per match: 35.5

So Anderson bowls 5 more overs a game but ends with a WPM of more than 0.75 less lmao

Anderson more economical though…. almost as if these stats are all somehow related.



Clearly Rabada is better suited for Bazball than Jimmy ever was.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Anderson more economical though…. almost as if these stats are all somehow related.



Clearly Rabada is better suited for Bazball than Jimmy ever was.

Yes rating Anderson higher for his better accuracy and better longevity is fair

 

[Johan]

The reason Rabada has a better WPM is because of his better strike rate. He doesn’t actually bowl more overs than Anderson so using bowling support is such a weak excuse.

Rabada’s overs per match: 30.7

Anderson’s over per match: 35.5

So Anderson bowls 5 more overs a game but ends with a WPM of more than 0.75 less lmao

Tag me if you wanna make an argument against me.

1. Anderson's greatest strength as a bowler was always his ability to blow away the top order, (1-4) and he was rarely ever used to clean down the tail, a strike bowler should always take the best batsmen no? and Anderson's ability to target the top order is shown by his stats, from 2010, 327 of his 556 wickets have been (1-4) while comparatively Rabada has 121 of his 304 wickets as top order, their averages against lower order are the same so clearly Anderson was used less against the lower order as his WPM against the top order is better. This is visible to anyone who watched both play as Anderson being 30+ was usually not given the ball more than the need was and the others bowlers used to clean up the tail. But I know you don't watch cricket so.

2. Rabada doesn't have Anderson's record against top batters such as Tendulkar/Ponting/Kallis/Williamson etc

3. SA has been a tougher place to bat in than England has been for quite some time now, I mean, why do you think the bowling WPM of Rabada falls so steeply outside SA? their away WPM from 2010 to 2024 – (ignoring Anderson's retirement year) has Anderson at 3.47 and Rabada at 3.70, not a big gap remaining now huh.

I already presented context for the stats at home, 138 out of 188 games with Broad who was also gun in England and other HTB pacers as well.

 

[capt_Luffy]

and...Anderson played with Swann too.

with none of those cricketers Rabada played more matches than 20 with afaik, 16 with Nortje, 13 with Jansen, 17 with Ngidi.

Anderson has played 138 of his 188 games with Broad, 56 with Swann on top, Rabada having some 3.5WPM bowlers (Nortje) and a 2.5 WPM bowler (Ngidi) for 20% of his career won't have as big an impact as nearly 140 games with Broad and 50+ with Swann.

you're talking of their home effectiveness as the exact same concept doesn't apply to Anderson with Woakes

Broad himself had a WPM of only 3.61. Anderson played a lower proportion of his matches with really capable bowlers than Rabada. Figures of SA bowlers in matches including Rabada (min 40 wickets):

Maharaj: 48 m, 153 @32.5
Philander: 31 m, 94 @22.9
Morkel: 19 m, 81 @22
Olivier: 12 m, 54 @21.4
Nortje: 16 m, 52 @27.7
Jansen: 13 m, 49 @22.7
Ngidi: 17 m, 48 @22

And
Steyn: 12 m, 33 @29

In matches with Anderson there are like 20 bowlers with 40+ wickets, and only one of them averages sub 28; and all the others bar Broad and Swann 30+. English bowling in matches with Anderson is really just worse the Saffa one with Rabada on average.

 

[Johan]

Broad himself had a WPM of only 3.61. Anderson played a lower proportion of his matches with really capable bowlers than Rabada. Figures of SA bowlers in matches including Rabada (min 40 wickets):

Maharaj: 48 m, 153 @32.5
Philander: 31 m, 94 @22.9
Morkel: 19 m, 81 @22
Olivier: 12 m, 54 @21.4
Nortje: 16 m, 52 @27.7
Jansen: 13 m, 49 @22.7
Ngidi: 17 m, 48 @22

And
Steyn: 12 m, 33 @29

In matches with Anderson there are like 20 bowlers with 40+ wickets, and only one of them averages sub 28; and all the others bar Broad and Swann 30+. English bowling in matches with Anderson is really just worse the Saffa one with Rabada on average.

Broad is a bigger factor tho, because as everyone agrees Anderson's prime is 2010-2023 (early) and after 2010 of the 144 matches Anderson played, 118 were with Broad who had as high a WPM as Jansen in those years.

as your stats show Steyn was clearly declining as a pacer.

so you take that into account and lets involve woakes too as he has a 4 home WPM and so does Broad, and home English conditions are clearly not as bowler friendly as SA has been for last 8 or so years.

then the context of Anderson not bowling as much to the tail and the fact that England has had a vulnerable bowling attack for a while that has led to Batsmen simply blocking out Anderson and feasting on other bowlers (can be seen in both 2017 and 2021 Ashes).

You take everything into account and you look at their away WPMs.

it's easy to come to the conclusion that while Rabada is more of a strike bowler, the gap isn't as big as raw stats would show at all.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Broad is a bigger factor tho, because as everyone agrees Anderson's prime is 2010-2023 (early) and after 2010 of the 144 matches Anderson played, 118 were with Broad who had as high a WPM as Jansen in those years.

as your stats show Steyn was clearly declining as a pacer.

so you take that into account and lets involve woakes too as he has a 4 home WPM and so does Broad, and home English conditions are clearly not as bowler friendly as SA has been for last 8 or so years.

then the context of Anderson not bowling as much to the tail and the fact that England has had a vulnerable bowling attack for a while that has led to Batsmen simply blocking out Anderson and feasting on other bowlers (can be seen in both 2017 and 2021 Ashes).

You take everything into account and you look at their away WPMs.

it's easy to come to the conclusion that while Rabada is more of a strike bowler, the gap isn't as big as raw stats would show at all.

Broad has a WPM of 3.63 in matches involving Anderson. While that's substantial, it's really not great imo. Anderson also skipped a fair few matches away in the last few years. And like, I don't think you really can argue against South Africa having a better bowling line-up than England on average during their respective careers. Imo, even if the gap isn't as big as raw stats, the gap is still substantially big.

 

[Johan]

Broad has a WPM of 3.63 in matches involving Anderson. While that's substantial, it's really not great imo. Anderson also skipped a fair few matches away in the last few years. And like, I don't think you really can argue against South Africa having a better bowling line-up than England on average during their respective careers. Imo, even if the gap isn't as big as raw stats, the gap is still substantially big.

from 2011 forward the games where Anderson is playing is near 4 iirc, regardless my point was Anderson has spent a large chunk of his career with a good bowler on the other hand and a home attack that can take wickets constantly, while SA have had better bowlers I don't think Rabada has had more competition than Anderson for his wickets. Though, I don't think the gap is substantial at all, definitely not substantial enough to overtake Anderson's ability to constantly take THE Batsmen out of the opponent's side, which is much more valuable than the ability to clean the tail (where I think the gap in WPM mainly spawns from).

 

[capt_Luffy]

from 2011 forward the games where Anderson is playing is near 4 iirc, regardless my point was Anderson has spent a large chunk of his career with a good bowler on the other hand and a home attack that can take wickets constantly, while SA have had better bowlers I don't think Rabada has had more competition than Anderson for his wickets. Though, I don't think the gap is substantial at all, definitely not substantial enough to overtake Anderson's ability to constantly take THE Batsmen out of the opponent's side, which is much more valuable than the ability to clean the tail (where I think the gap in WPM mainly spawns from).

Disagree with the highlighted part. For the context, I still voted Anderson, but WPM is definitely a very strong point in favour of Rabada.