The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[capt_Luffy]

I'm saying that Zaheer was world class batsman against spin, he wasn't near that vs real pace, that's not a secret.

And no one brought up Sunny, just saying.

And no doubt in my mind he was a better batsman than Dravid, some though may argue for Sanga.

All I know is if I had access to a time machine and was collecting the avengers for a must win test series there's no one I'm choosing ahead of him as an opener.

You pretty much loose me here. I definitely think you being 'sure' that a batsman who played in the top level for like 10 years and that included 4 Test matches, and you even haven't seen bat, to be 'definitely' better than the 4th highest run scorer ever, you are tripping. Zaheer was also a world class player of swing, actually better than spin.
And on the last para, it's really great you don't, or we will lose that series by your taking him ahead of Hobbs, Hutton, Sunny and Grace.
Overall, still no reason to be rated ahead of Victor Trumper.

 

[Bolo.]

Smith captaining the ROW would drop Sobers for being a 'disruptive influence', Curtly for not being penetrative enough, and Watling cos he's not Boucher.

 

[kyear2]

You pretty much loose me here. I definitely think you being 'sure' that a batsman who played in the top level for like 10 years and that included 4 Test matches, and you even haven't seen bat, to be 'definitely' better than the 4th highest run scorer ever, you are tripping. Zaheer was also a world class player of swing, actually better than spin.
And on the last para, it's really great you don't, or we will lose that series by your taking him ahead of Hobbs, Hutton, Sunny and Grace.
Overall, still no reason to be rated ahead of Victor Trumper.

Honestly don't get the Grace stuff. You tell me I've never seen Barry bat, no one alive has seen Grace bat.

Not even in contention for me.

Oh, and never seeing Ponting has ever stopped you from dumping on him.

When Barry and Sunny both played, Barry was seen and acknowledged to be better. Sunny didn't love the quick stuff on quicker wickets.

And good thing that it isn't just me that rates Barry as highly as I do.

 

[kyear2]

Smith captaining the ROW would drop Sobers for being a 'disruptive influence', Curtly for not being penetrative enough, and Watling cos he's not Boucher.

I know you're kidding.

But no idea how Garry would have fit into a disciplined environment. Many apparently tried.

 

[Bolo.]

I know you're kidding.

But no idea how Garry would have fit into a disciplined environment. Many apparently tried.

He did drop Pollock for not being penetrative enough (late career Curtly).
He did drop by far the best ODI AR (Klusener) from the team for being a 'disruptive influence', after 2 previous captains were cool with him (Sobers).
He did keep Boucher around long after expiration date, cos he wasn't Boucher (Watling).

I'm definitely kidding, but am more serious than joking. You either get Smith, his poor selections, and his fairly poor tactical captaincy. Or you pick a different captain.

 

[Coronis]

What would be my favourite XI

Sutcliffe
Hobbs
Bradman*
Hammond
Barrington
Kallis
Gilchrist+
Procter
Davidson
Grimmett
Barnes

Some very unlucky guys to miss out.

O’Reilly, McGrath, Oldfield, Smith, Sanga just to name a few.

Nice varied bowling attack with a left armer, Procter who can bowl spin when necessary, and Barnes. #batdeep to 9, nice batting attack with some aggressive and defensive batsmen.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Favorite Xi

Trumper
Jardine*
Bradman
Sangakarra+
De Villiers
Sobers
Miller
Larwood
Waqar
Steyn
Thomson

Waqar, Larwood, Steyn,Thommo, Miller bowling together would be a sight to see. Especially how Jardine would use them. Good luck to the opposition really facing them in a faster wicket. Sobers to bowl left arm quick stuff when needed for variety.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Favourites XI:

Victor Trumper
Sunil Gavaskar
Don Bradman*
George Headley
Garry Sobers
AB de Villiers+
Mike Procter
Wilfred Rhodes
Bill O'Reilly
Jasprit Bumrah
Sydney Barnes

A close second XI:


Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton*
Rahul Dravid
Dudley Nourse
Andy Flower+
Steve Waugh
Aubrey Faulkner
Wasim Akram
Curtly Ambrose
Dale Steyn
Mutthiah Muralitharan

 

[Thala_0710]

Favourites XI:

Victor Trumper
Sunil Gavaskar
Don Bradman*
George Headley
Garry Sobers
AB de Villiers+
Mike Procter
Wilfred Rhodes
Bill O'Reilly
Jasprit Bumrah
Sydney Barnes

A close second XI:


Sunil Gavaskar
Len Hutton*
Rahul Dravid
Dudley Nourse
Andy Flower+
Steve Waugh
Aubrey Faulkner
Wasim Akram
Curtly Ambrose
Dale Steyn
Mutthiah Muralitharan

Love Gavaskar so much you put him in both your Xis.
Favourites Xi:

Sehwag
Dravid
Lara
Tendulkar
De Villiers
Dhoni
Botham
Wasim
Swann
Asif
Bumrah

 

[capt_Luffy]

A more favourite XI with a **** you to think about them just being good or not:


Victor Trumper
Eddie Barlow
Frank Worrell*
Dudley Nourse
A B de Villiers
Andy Flower
Wriddhiman Saha+
Mike Procter
Curtly Ambrose
Bill O'Reilly
B S Chandrasekhar

 

[Prince EWS]

A more favourite XI with a **** you to think about them just being good or not:


Victor Trumper
Eddie Barlow
Frank Worrell*
Dudley Nourse
A B de Villiers
Andy Flower
Wriddhiman Saha+
Mike Procter
Curtly Ambrose
Bill O'Reilly
B S Chandrasekhar

Curtly's having nosebleeds there. Should have picked Garner for his batting.

 

[Qlder]

My Aussie "most exciting to watch" XI that I've seen

1. David Warner
2. Michael Slater
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Greg Chappell
5. Kim Hughes
6. Dean Jones
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Mitch Johnson
10. Brett Lee
11. Dennis Lillee

Jeff Thomson would have been there except I only saw him after his shoulder injury. Same with Dougie Walters, never saw him until his one season after WSC

 

[subshakerz]

Should Gibbs make the ATG WI XI?

One can argue dropping Holding or Garner for a specialist spinner lessens the potency of the attack. But Gibbs was extraordinarily miserly and would Sobers be enough of a spin option?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Should Gibbs make the ATG WI XI?

One can argue dropping Holding or Garner for a specialist spinner lessens the potency of the attack. But Gibbs was extraordinarily miserly and would Sobers be enough of a spin option?

Sobers would probably be better as a pace option anyways.

 

[subshakerz]

My Aussie "most exciting to watch" XI that I've seen

1. David Warner
2. Michael Slater
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Greg Chappell
5. Kim Hughes
6. Dean Jones
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Mitch Johnson
10. Brett Lee
11. Dennis Lillee

Jeff Thomson would have been there except I only saw him after his shoulder injury. Same with Dougie Walters, never saw him until his one season after WSC

Chappell was exciting to watch? More like elegance like Mark Waugh.

 

[Qlder]

Chappell was exciting to watch? More like elegance like Mark Waugh.

Which was exciting for me to watch how elegant he was. Mark Waugh can be 12th man and David Gower first picked for "England most exciting XI I've seen"

 

[Coronis]

Should Gibbs make the ATG WI XI?

One can argue dropping Holding or Garner for a specialist spinner lessens the potency of the attack. But Gibbs was extraordinarily miserly and would Sobers be enough of a spin option?

It depends really on how important you think having a spinner is.

Some people will claim that because the West Indies were dominant with bowling practically only pacers that it would be the same in an ATG contest.

I personally feel that fails to take into account that other teams also have ATG attacks and that the variety of the quality spinner is going to make more of a difference than a 4th pacer. At his peak he was definitely a top quality spinner.

 

[Qlder]

Some people will claim that because the West Indies were dominant with bowling practically only pacers that it would be the same in an ATG contest.

This is a myth. West Indies were destroyed by Lillee and Thomson in 1975/76 losing 5-1 so Clive Lloyd decided to fight fire with fire and unleashed Roberts, Holding, Garner and Croft in 1979/80. This 4 pace attack approach lasted about 10-12 years of WI cricket history.

As said previously, any bowler that held the world record for most wickets taken should be an automatic selection in an ATG country side as they achieved what no-one else could at the time. So Gibbs is in the ATG Windies XI for me

 

[subshakerz]

It depends really on how important you think having a spinner is.

Some people will claim that because the West Indies were dominant with bowling practically only pacers that it would be the same in an ATG contest.

I personally feel that fails to take into account that other teams also have ATG attacks and that the variety of the quality spinner is going to make more of a difference than a 4th pacer. At his peak he was definitely a top quality spinner.

I think if WI in the 80s had a Gibbs quality spinner they would have consistently played him. Especially in the SC.

 

[Coronis]

I think if WI in the 80s had a Gibbs quality spinner they would have consistently played him. Especially in the SC.

Well Roger Harper wasn’t Gibbs and these stats are meaningless without context but just for fun.

1980’s Windies without Roger Harper

58 matches 26 wins 6 losses 26 draws

1980’s Windies with Roger Harper

24 matches 17 wins 2 losses 5 draws