*OFFICIAL* England in Pakistan 2024

[PlayerComparisons]

Truth is that all of Englands batsmen are flat track/weak attack bullies (atm). They rarely try to grind out tough runs when the conditions are tough or the bowling is good.

 

[BazBall21]

The main reason I think Pakistan would have won anyway is because I don't think England would have put up 360 with the way they approached this game with the bat. Slow turners are absolutely tailor made to neutralise the way England like to bat.

Like, wasn't everyone complaining on Day 1 about how lucky Pakistan were getting and how easily they could have been shot out for a much lower score?

Don't think 360 is off the cards. Root and Duckett could have put on a huge partnership. Both like low bounce. The others would just need to chip in with the odd score.

 

[Spark]

Don't think 360 is off the cards. Root and Duckett could have put on a huge partnership. Both like low bounce. The others would just need to chip in with the odd score.

And maybe they get out cheaply. There are no guarantees in cricket. The only thing we can say is that Pakistan played the conditions properly, throughout the game, and England didn't. Even today it's not like the top order batsmen were making the Pakistani spinners get them out, most of them played dumbass shots because they were premeditating all the time, which you absolutely cannot do on slow turner.

So my guess is that they would have done absolutely the same thing on Day 1, which did have some slow turn as well, and got out in stupid ways as well. Probably caught in the ring a lot.

 

[Molehill]

The main reason I think Pakistan would have won anyway is because I don't think England would have put up 360 with the way they approached this game with the bat. Slow turners are absolutely tailor made to neutralise the way England like to bat.

Like, wasn't everyone complaining on Day 1 about how lucky Pakistan were getting and how easily they could have been shot out for a much lower score?

Yeah, but it wasn't the spinners who were creating the issues on Day 1. The big miss was the Rizwan edge off Potts. You only have to look at Leach's figures to see how the game changed from the first innings to the 3rd.

 

[BazBall21]

And maybe they get out cheaply. There are no guarantees in cricket. The only thing we can say is that Pakistan played the conditions properly, throughout the game, and England didn't. Even today it's not like the top order batsmen were making the Pakistani spinners get them out, most of them played dumbass shots because they were premeditating all the time, which you absolutely cannot do on slow turner.

Yeah but no one said it's an absolute certainty that England would have won. I don't think there's any victim narrative in praising a board's unconventional tactics after their team couldn't buy a win. They were probably overdue a bit of luck also.

 

[Molehill]

And maybe they get out cheaply. There are no guarantees in cricket. The only thing we can say is that Pakistan played the conditions properly, throughout the game, and England didn't. Even today it's not like the top order batsmen were making the Pakistani spinners get them out, most of them played dumbass shots because they were premeditating all the time, which you absolutely cannot do on slow turner.

So my guess is that they would have done absolutely the same thing on Day 1, which did have some slow turn as well, and got out in stupid ways as well. Probably caught in the ring a lot.

I accept that England don't necessarily bat well in those conditions - I just don't think those were the conditions on Day 1.

 

[mackembhoy]

What would have been a par score from 221-2? Pitch started to do a bit, but nothing can excuse losing your last 8 wickets for 70 runs, this team is still too reliant on Root, too often when he falls, everyone else folds like a deck of cards

It started to do a bit but our shots were in another postcode to where the ball was. With 40 mins of the day left it was frustrating to see.

I'm no longer getting to emotional at it. As @PlayerComparisons echoed my sentiments it's the side they are. Will win plenty of tests because conditions and bowlers in many games we play suit our style.

They ain't winning a series in Australia though and it we already saw it can't win in India.

 

[Spark]

Yeah but no one said it's an absolute certainty that England would have won. I don't think there's any victim narrative in praising a board's unconventional tactics after their team couldn't buy a win. They were probably overdue a bit of luck also.

My entire point is that while the way they got to these conditions are unorthodox, the conditions themselves are not. So there's no grounds for saying England are "obviously better" in these conditions until they prove that they can actually play them properly.

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah, but it wasn't the spinners who were creating the issues on Day 1. The big miss was the Rizwan edge off Potts. You only have to look at Leach's figures to see how the game changed from the first innings to the 3rd.

The Rizwan non review was one of the various sloppy elements of England's performance.

Regarding the conditions, there's also the fact Pakistan's spinners weren't getting much purchase themselves throughout Duckett's hundred which is another tell sign that it wasn't a spin friendly deck on day 1. The pitch changed quite abruptly, and England didn't adapt well because they are a flawed Test side.

 

[BazBall21]

My entire point is that while the way they got to these conditions are unorthodox, the conditions themselves are not. So there's no ground for saying England are "obviously better" in these conditions until they prove that they can actually play them properly.

I don't think I said England are obviously better than Pakistan on spinning wickets. It's difficult to say one way or another after a one match sample.

 

[BazBall21]

It started to do a bit but our shots were in another postcode to where the ball was. With 40 mins of the day left it was frustrating to see.

I'm no longer getting to emotional at it. As @PlayerComparisons echoed my sentiments it's the side they are. Will win plenty of tests because conditions and bowlers in many games we play suit our style.

They ain't winning a series in Australia though and it we already saw it can't win in India.

England don't have the batting or bowling to win in Australia. I think we will be more respectable than the previous three tours without getting particularly close.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

It started to do a bit but our shots were in another postcode to where the ball was. With 40 mins of the day left it was frustrating to see.

I'm no longer getting to emotional at it. As @PlayerComparisons echoed my sentiments it's the side they are. Will win plenty of tests because conditions and bowlers in many games we play suit our style.

They ain't winning a series in Australia though and it we already saw it can't win in India.

They’re not really playing to their potential. Someone like Root has the game to play a proper innings but was premeditating on every shot. Sometimes you have to bat at a sub 50 strike rate but they always want to bat at 60+.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Burgey and Coco crawling all over this thread like weasels

I accidentally popped in a bit too early to give my commiserations before.

However, I just want all English fans to know that I am here for you if you need a shoulder.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Rank Robin Smith, Alec Stewart, Allan Lamb and Ben Stokes v spin.

Well, I'd probably put Rank Robin Smith last.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Came for the waaaahs, wasn't disappointed

 

[BazBall21]

Well, I'd probably put Rank Robin Smith last.

Don't know who I would put first but Smith probably takes 4th. I think Robin was the best of the lot v pace though.

 

[mackembhoy]

And maybe they get out cheaply. There are no guarantees in cricket. The only thing we can say is that Pakistan played the conditions properly, throughout the game, and England didn't. Even today it's not like the top order batsmen were making the Pakistani spinners get them out, most of them played dumbass shots because they were premeditating all the time, which you absolutely cannot do on slow turner.

So my guess is that they would have done absolutely the same thing on Day 1, which did have some slow turn as well, and got out in stupid ways as well. Probably caught in the ring a lot.

Apart from the last paragraph your right. It didn't spin at all until the end of day 2.

Was looking like Pakistan had made a massive error playing 1 seamer as reverse swing was going to be the only effective mode of dismissal.

It started to turn and we didn't react at all and we lost our remaining 8 wickets for nothing. That was the game the dropped catches just compounded the mistakes in the first innings.

Not a single one of them can sit and believe they did the right thing, even if they'd never admit it.

Second dig we had too much to do so I fully expected what happened.

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah. Actual nuance. Both things can be true. Pakistan got the better batting conditions, and England didn't deal well with that.

 

[Johan]

There are gonna be bad days, it's not a big deal, talking so much about England struggling in Pakistan and losing a match to a proper UAE style wicket when Australia lost to Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka and NZ got obliterated by Lanka just a month ago is a proper display of why some of you have higher standards to meet for English cricket than any other country.

Truth is that all of Englands batsmen are flat track/weak attack bullies (atm). They rarely try to grind out tough runs when the conditions are tough or the bowling is good.

did you not see the 2022 Pakistan tour and the second two matches? lol.

Regardless, well played to Pakistan, deserved victory, England can do better next time with the fielding effort and especially batting.

 

[chris.hinton]

Stokes pretty much used his interview to blame the toss.

Always something to blame when we lose. How about its the obsession with trying to score at 5 an over & getting out stupidly