The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Coronis]

First up, want to keep this civil and pleasantly pleased on how it has been this far.

Warne and Murali, the two greatest spinners ever and legitimate match winners. But extremely ordinary vs great players. There's no doubt in my mind that Warne's the weak link for an Aussie attack and against an at India, WI or possibly even SA team, he's being targeted.

Tayfield in my opinion isn't in the same ball park as an Ambrose and Steyn and Marshall and to a slightly lesser extent Hadlee have all proven themselves in all conditions and I believe would fare well in Asia.

Sobers could even throw in a couple overs of leg spin as well on rank turners, and there's Faulkner if you're so inclined.

I know this may not be a popular take, and it's just my opinion.

The final of such a trio would likely be ROW vs the Ashes, and that's the team I'm building to beat.

How would they make a final if the best they have to throw out on a turner is Sobers vs Murali lol? They’d lose before they make it there

 

[kyear2]

How would they make a final if the best they have to throw out on a turner is Sobers vs Murali lol? They’d lose before they make it there

Don't think the SC batting is up to par with the other teams. Think the RoW bowling can succeed anywhere.

Is Tayfield winning matches in India where Warne and Murali couldn't

 

[Coronis]

Don't think the SC batting is up to par with the other teams. Think the RoW bowling can succeed anywhere.

Is Tayfield winning matches in India where Warne and Murali couldn't

More likely to win a match on a turning wicket than pace bowlers and a crap spinner.

 

[kyear2]

More likely to win a match on a turning wicket than pace bowlers and a crap spinner.

That's their strength though, playing spin.

I fully understand what you're saying I just disagree on this one. Think the strength of batting can make a difference

 

[bagapath]

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman*
G Chappell
Hammond
Miller
Gilchrist+
Warne
Trueman
Lillee
McGrath

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Sangakkara
Tendulkar
Miandad
Imran*
Dhoni+
Kapil
Wasim
Waqar
Murali

Smith*
Greenidge
Lara
Kallis
Richards
Sobers
Watling+
Hadlee
Marshall
Tayfield
Steyn

 

[capt_Luffy]

Don't think the SC batting is up to par with the other teams. Think the RoW bowling can succeed anywhere.

Is Tayfield winning matches in India where Warne and Murali couldn't

Heavily disagree. The difference between the batting of RoW and Asia is minimal

 

[Bolo.]

Heavily disagree. The difference between the batting of RoW and Asia is minimal

Not much difference in the specialist bats, but a pretty big difference between the batting the bowlers bring.

 

[Thala_0710]

Ashes XI

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Smith
Hammond
Chappell
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
Trueman
McGrath

Sub Continent XI

Gavaskar
Anwar
Dravid
Tendulkar
Younis
Sangakkara
Imran
Wasim
Ashwin
Muralitharan
Bumrah

ROW

Richards
Greenidge
Richards
Lara
Kallis
Sobers
Lindsay
Hadlee
Marshall
Ambrose
Steyn

Yeah, not nearly as close as I would have thought in my head.

Maybe Xis from this century (post 2000 debut) would be closer:

Asia Xi

Sehwag
Rohit
Pujara
Kohli
Sanga
Younis
Jadeja
Ashwin
Shami
Bumrah
Asif

Ashes Xi

Khawaja
Cook
Root
Smith
Pietersen
Stokes
Prior
Cummins
Lyon
Hazlewood
Anderson

ROW

Smith
Gayle
Amla
Williamson
ABD
Watling
Holder
Philander
Rabada
Maharaj
Steyn

 

[capt_Luffy]

Not much difference in the specialist bats, but a pretty big difference between the batting the bowlers bring.

How so? Imran-Ashwin-Wasim (the correct batting order) is a pretty good tail. Not much worse than Lindsay-Hadlee-Marshall.

 

[Bolo.]

How so? Imran-Ashwin-Wasim (the correct batting order) is a pretty good tail. Not much worse than Lindsay-Hadlee-Marshall.

Ya, that combination is pretty close (assuming you rate Lindsay high enough for a position in the team). I was looking at the teams featuring full time WKs, who would be a wash on batting, in which case the ROW would start from Sobers.

 

[kyear2]

Not much difference in the specialist bats, but a pretty big difference between the batting the bowlers bring.

Gavaskar | Sehwag | Sangakkara | Tendulkar | Dravid | Miandad | Imran | Jadeja

Is just as good as

Richards | Greenidge | Richards | Lara | Kallis | Sobers | Watling | Hadlee

My top two tiers of ATG batsmen highlighted.

To compare to the Ashes team

Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Smith | Hammond | Chappell | Gilchrist | Davidson

Think there's quite a bit of difference

 

[capt_Luffy]

Gavaskar | Sehwag | Sangakkara | Tendulkar | Dravid | Miandad | Imran | Jadeja

Is just as good as

Richards | Greenidge | Richards | Lara | Kallis | Sobers | Watling | Hadlee

My top two tiers of ATG batsmen highlighted.

To compare to the Ashes team

Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Smith | Hammond | Chappell | Gilchrist | Davidson

Think there's quite a bit of difference

I am sorry, but it doesn't works like that..... Sangakkara and Dravid are all debatable with Kallis; Richards is of the level of Miandad.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ya, that combination is pretty close (assuming you rate Lindsay high enough for a position in the team). I was looking at the teams featuring full time WKs, who would be a wash on batting, in which case the ROW would start from Sobers.

Yeah, that's the reason I would go with Sangakkara. The teams I made, I would say we're all around close between Asia and RoW, with slight advantage to RoW; but they also have a pretty big weakness with lacking a really top class ATG spinner.

 

[kyear2]

I am sorry, but it doesn't works like that..... Sangakkara and Dravid are all debatable with Kallis; Richards is of the level of Miandad.

We've had the discussion about Dravid / Sangakkara vs Kallis, I place him above, you don't. Fair enough.

Javed Miandad is on the same level as Viv Richards though?

 

[capt_Luffy]

We've had the discussion about Dravid / Sangakkara vs Kallis, I place him above, you don't. Fair enough.

Javed Miandad is on the same level as Viv Richards though?

Barry. Not Viv.

 

[Bolo.]

Gavaskar | Sehwag | Sangakkara | Tendulkar | Dravid | Miandad | Imran | Jadeja

Is just as good as

Richards | Greenidge | Richards | Lara | Kallis | Sobers | Watling | Hadlee

My top two tiers of ATG batsmen highlighted.

To compare to the Ashes team

Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Smith | Hammond | Chappell | Gilchrist | Davidson

Think there's quite a bit of difference

Ashes will be quite a lot stronger, especially when going in around a bowler lighter than the other 2 teams like you are doing.

There's give and take in your selections for Asia and ROW. Very little in it head to head, or on overall balance, other than some unanswered questions in Lindsay and Barry.

Yeah, that's the reason I would go with Sangakkara. The teams I made, I would say we're all around close between Asia and RoW, with slight advantage to RoW; but they also have a pretty big weakness with lacking a really top class ATG spinner.

Fair enough. Not everyone likes picking a WK who mainly played as a bat though. ROW may as well pick AB if going this route and take a bit of a batting advantage.

 

[Coronis]

Ashes XI just makes things so pretty with England (openers) covering up Australia’s one major deficiency. Plus you get access to Hammond, which gives you yet another ATG bat and a very viable 5th bowler.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Fair enough. Not everyone likes picking a WK who mainly played as a bat though. ROW may as well pick AB if going this route and take a bit of a batting advantage.

I mean, I went with Flower in that team. If you aren't really dependent, then Flower I think works fine.

 

[Bolo.]

I mean, I went with Flower in that team. If you aren't really dependent, then Flower I think works fine.

Flower isn't the same concern as Sanga/AB. Most people leave him out cos they think his keeping was poor. They wouldn't be first picks with the gloves, but are mainly getting left out cos they weren't career keepers.

 

[kyear2]

Barry. Not Viv.

We still disagree, but ok.

I very much have Barry top 10