Denis Compton vs Younis Khan

[Coronis]

Yes, but that doesn't removes this important context, does it?

I mean again its simply a what if. If I’m judging a player in test cricket, I’m judging him based on his performance in tests.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I mean again its simply a what if. If I’m judging a player in test cricket, I’m judging him based on his performance in tests.

I think it's a bit misleading to act like a player missing their prime to War is not something major.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

It is major but it’s also too bad. We can’t assume he would have averaged higher if he didn’t miss those years. We have to rate him as what his record shows which is a batsman that averaged 50 overall and 35 away from home.

 

[Johan]

his away record is 100% contextual, I'll get to the depth of this.......in 2028 Ofcourse.

 

[capt_Luffy]

It is major but it’s also too bad. We can’t assume he would have averaged higher if he didn’t miss those years. We have to rate him as what his record shows which is a batsman that averaged 50 overall and 35 away from home.

*37. Why are you so passionate about lowering his away average?? He played in a particularly much lower scoring Era, and it's not like Younis himself is some God outside Asia (averages 39, and that too is exaggerated by pretty soft runs here and there in flat pitches.)

 

[Bolo.]

I mean again its simply a what if. If I’m judging a player in test cricket, I’m judging him based on his performance in tests.

There has to be some context involved? I'm sure you don't take Voges' performances at face value.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Tbf Compton didn’t make the top 30 in the batsmen ranking poll so I guess not really that rated that high anyways

 

[Coronis]

There has to be some context involved? I'm sure you don't take Voges' performances at face value.

I mean, I do. He beat up a pathetic Windies team, failed miserably against England, South Africa and Sri Lanka. Scored a ton against NZ on a pitch with at least 2 tons in each completed innings (probably heading that way in the 4th too). His 239 is probably his only innings of real note, still with a caveat of a missing Wagner and a pitch where Lyon did very well, with NZ not having a decent spinner.

It’d be like if Pollock’s record was only built on NZ and Pakistan in the 60’s.

Plus he played for a year and a half.

 

[Bolo.]

I mean, I do. He beat up a pathetic Windies team, failed miserably against England, South Africa and Sri Lanka. Scored a ton against NZ on a pitch with at least 2 tons in each completed innings (probably heading that way in the 4th too). His 239 is probably his only innings of real note, still with a caveat of a missing Wagner and a pitch where Lyon did very well, with NZ not having a decent spinner.

It’d be like if Pollock’s record was only built on NZ and Pakistan in the 60’s.

Plus he played for a year and a half.

All fair points. But the standards he faced in test cricket were still above FC, and he is multiple tiers up on performances. Form very much comes into why he isn't rated.

 

[shortpitched713]

I think it's a bit misleading to act like a player missing their prime to War is not something major.

Some guys play on too long also, because their presence and leadership is deemed important to a country's Test team, so that's also context of some careers more than others.

Should we start cutting off some of those later past prime years to make their averages look better? When do these context exercises simply lose objectivity and lead to us just leaning towards our favorites? I mean, we all do have biases, but we can't expect others to uphold them also.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Some guys play on too long also, because their presence and leadership is deemed important to a country's Test team, so that's also context of some careers more than others.

Should we start cutting off some of those later past prime years to make their averages look better? When do these context exercises simply lose objectivity and lead to us just leaning towards our favorites? I mean, we all do have biases, but we can't expect others to uphold them also.

Okay, if the guy playing for his team is not being as beneficiary from a runs point as could be deemed satisfactory, shan't we hold it against them. If you are playing for leadership or whatever, you get points for leadership or whatever. But when you are going out to the field and failing, it's on you and can never be shaken off completely. Ofcourse, by context you get leeways if you were injured or old and past prime; but it still definitely counts. Frankly, both of these, playing too long and playing while injured, works for Compton as well also.

 

[shortpitched713]

I made an inverse point that just as one can miss out, one can also be hampered in "legacy" by being put it.

There's a case to be made that it is the most consistent, objective position to count all Tests for all players that played them, more or less on an all things equal basis. And only that.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I made an inverse point that just as one can miss out, one can also be hampered in "legacy" by being put it.

There's a case to be made that it is the most consistent, objective position to count all Tests for all players that played them, more or less on an all things equal basis. And only that.

Again, that's a gross oversimplification.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I mean, I do. He beat up a pathetic Windies team, failed miserably against England, South Africa and Sri Lanka. Scored a ton against NZ on a pitch with at least 2 tons in each completed innings (probably heading that way in the 4th too). His 239 is probably his only innings of real note, still with a caveat of a missing Wagner and a pitch where Lyon did very well, with NZ not having a decent spinner.

It’d be like if Pollock’s record was only built on NZ and Pakistan in the 60’s.

Plus he played for a year and a half.

I think Paynter is a better example for it than Voges.

 

[the big bambino]

Some guys play on too long also, because their presence and leadership is deemed important to a country's Test team, so that's also context of some careers more than others.

Should we start cutting off some of those later past prime years to make their averages look better? When do these context exercises simply lose objectivity and lead to us just leaning towards our favorites? I mean, we all do have biases, but we can't expect others to uphold them also.

This also happened to Compton but he also missed 6 prime years ...

 

[Line and Length]

Tbf Compton didn’t make the top 30 in the batsmen ranking poll so I guess not really that rated that high anyways

Was ranked 24 in the 2022 poll (Younis was 25).

 

[sayon basak]

Was ranked 24 in the 2022 poll (Younis was 25).

Talking about this one?

CW's Top 50 Test Batsmen. 2022 Results

Firstly, my thanks @gftw for initiating the voting thread and thanks to all who contributed votes and comments. With voting and comments dwindling, it was felt we should stop at a final Top 50. I have added stats to the list as a matter of interest and for discussion points and here is the...

www.cricketweb.net

And was this the last time the batsmen rankings was done?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Talking about this one?

CW's Top 50 Test Batsmen. 2022 Results

Firstly, my thanks @gftw for initiating the voting thread and thanks to all who contributed votes and comments. With voting and comments dwindling, it was felt we should stop at a final Top 50. I have added stats to the list as a matter of interest and for discussion points and here is the...

www.cricketweb.net

And was this the last time the batsmen rankings was done?

No

2024 Ranking of Batsmen Poll

We'll go ahead with a normal 3,2,1 vote for the first three positions - even though I expect Bradman to be almost automatic for top place. Voting will be open for roughly 24 hours and we will elect 3 each day until our Top 50 is established. Bradman Hobbs Sobers

www.cricketweb.net