Gordon Greenidge vs Rahul Dravid

[PlayerComparisons]

Two good players of the moving ball

 

[sayon basak]

Two good players of the moving ball

I guess you made this poll just because you want Greenidge to lose. Respectable tho.

 

[Al Salvador]

Greenidge is underrated. He will easily average 50 in Dravid's games. One of the truly great openers in both formats of the game, no one else like that.

 

[Johan]

Get Greenidge past Boyc and then dream of Rahul.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Get Greenidge past Boyc and then dream of Rahul.

Dravid > Greenidge > Boycott

 

[sayon basak]

Dravid > Greenidge > Boycott

Dravid is fairly ahead of the two.

 

[Johan]

Dravid > Greenidge > Boycott

Dravid>Boycott>Greenidge

 

[sayon basak]

Greenidge is underrated. He will easily average 50 in Dravid's games. One of the truly great openers in both formats of the game, no one else like that.

Not in CW.
Far from that actually.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I’d say Greenidge is underrated by casuals because of his average. He’s not underrated on here though.

 

[Majestic]

Dravid is better.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Nah I'm sorry, Dravid is the one who's underrated on CW if anything, not Greenidge. Rate Greenidge very highly but reckon dravid is miles clear. Dravid gets downgraded by checklist adherents (some of these valid reasons, some not) and by people who apply the 2000s flat track criteria with no context ignoring that he played some of the best innings on bad pitches I've ever seen, was a genius against the moving ball and flourished as a young batsman in the 90s too. Nailed on top 20-25 batsman for me.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Looks like about time for a Greenidge v Ponting poll.....

 

[Coronis]

I think this forum is full of casuals who can't look beyond averages from statsguru. See Younis Khan's hype for instance. I scratch my head around seeing his hype.

Ah yes, CW, the casuals forum.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I think this forum is full of casuals who can't look beyond averages from statsguru. See Younis Khan's hype for instance. I scratch my head around seeing his hype. Bloke used to dance like a belly dancer when the ball bounced above knee height and moved 0.1 degree; people overrate him by misleading averages outside Asia.

I think Younis is pretty similar to Jayawardene. Both were ATGs against spin but FTBs against pace. Definitely not as good as Kohli/De Villiers/Root etc

 

[h_hurricane]

Greenidge may have been underrated by a few but at the same time gets overrated by a few as well. Remember kyear2 once mentioning that there is not a lot to pick between him and Gavaskar which is clearly overrating him. Overall, he is fairly rated here. He is ATVG but not ATG.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Greenidge was averaging over 50 in a 10/11 year career as an opener in a very tough era. That is worth 55 average in batting era for middle-order players. He was basically ATG for most of his career before a bad decline in a very long career in the tough era. He is ATG because he had the record of ATG for most of his career. People here call guys like Kapil ATG, who averages almost 30 with the ball and 31 with the bat and has never had a record of ATG at any point in his career. Overseas record, bowling average 32, batting 26, that's mediocre at best record. Bloke has a record of Chris Cairns and hype of Keith Miller. If he's ATG, then Greenidge absolutely is because he actually had a record of ATG for most of his career.

That's selective stats picking imo..... Dravid averaged as around 58 after a 10-11 year period. A decline is a decline. Greenidge's away record in Australia is quite poor, and I can give some leeway for Pakistan, but not a pass. Lloyd ahead of Greenidge for me.
As for Kapil, he really was India's first GOOD pacer post War. Averages aren't everything imo. The bowling load Kapil had, his durability and record in WI and Australia, the two strongest batting units of his time, are all top notch. Not saying ignore his mediocre/poor England and NZ record, but he certainly is one of those players much more valuable than their average suggests. Not much below Botham overall.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yes, I agree, similar to MJ, Sehwag, Inzi, etc. Great players of spin, but FTB against pace. Younis had the mental strength to cash in when he got subcontinental-like conditions outside Asia (bar Cape Town knock), which he obviously deserves credit for, but that doesn't suggest he was a good player of pace. People rating him above root AB Kohli is one of the biggest viruses I'm fighting against on this website

I rate him higher than you but yea agree with what you’re saying. I’ve been overrating him a bit.

Also I’m not sure Inzi was a FTB against pace like Sehwag/Jayawardene but I might be wrong

 

[capt_Luffy]

I agree with you that he's better than his record, but that also applies for Cairns, Flintoff, Stokes, etc., whose careers are massively hampered by injuries and other external factors. I don't see anyone adjusting their record and saying they're better than their record. I'm all for saying Kapil is better than his record, but people have to say the same for the other 3. That's only way it's fair; if not, it's biasness for certain players, which is not right. And yes I rate Lloyd above Greenidge but that's not the debate here.

Imo, injuries are part of a game and the ability to hit the ground for 16 years straight as a pacer with immense workload to be cherished accordingly. It's one of the reasons I don't rate glass cannons like Bond, Akhtar, Tyson, etc too highly. Ofcourse they were more talented than Kapil, but what is the point if they can't play regularly?? Cairns and Flintoff are fair bets, though I must say I don't rate them nearly as high as Kapil due to the reason I just stated, them having friendlier home conditions and not to cope with Kapil's workload. All very significant factors personally. And as for Stokes, I think he gets rated a bit too highly for a batsman averaging 35 who has failed repeatedly in Australia and India. No doubt have those ATG innings, Headingley and all, but lacks the consistency.

 

[h_hurricane]

I agree with you that he's better than his record, but that also applies for Cairns, Flintoff, Stokes, etc., whose careers are massively hampered by injuries and other external factors. I don't see anyone adjusting their record and saying they're better than their record. I'm all for saying Kapil is better than his record, but people have to say the same for the other 3. That's only way it's fair; if not, it's biasness for certain players, which is not right. And yes I rate Lloyd above Greenidge but that's not the debate here.

Cairns and Flintoff had their records protected by not playing when they were injured. Kapil kept playing all the time and was never workload managed. Stokes has the luxury of picking and chosing when he bowls. Recent matches give you a hint. There is no good reason to adjust the record of other all rounders here to the extent of Kapil's.

 

[h_hurricane]

Stokes is literally playing with half fitness from the start of Brisbane test bar this wi series. Be fair with everyone, then it's not a problem. Don't pick and choose. That's all really. I like kapil and rate him highly because i too think he's better than his average but that applies for others as well.

That is what I am saying as well. He is playing but not bowling mostly. India series is an example when he sparingly bowled. If you are assuming that Kapil was always fit when he bowled, then he deserves more points for consistent all round contributions. On the other hand, if you think Kapil bowled despite not being always fit, you would need to admit that his stats took a larger hit than Stokes'. Either way Kapil wins.

I don't know why you dragged Kapil into a Greenidge thread, but I will stop here.