Ravichandran Ashwin vs Kapil Dev

[kyear2]

Think Kapil is indeed a bit overrated, and if I had to choose either for my India team ot would have to be be Ashwin.

Not that tough a decision actually.

 

[kyear2]

Exactly, like I don't think if Australia was led by Gilchrist instead of Ponting (I swear it's just an example, I don't have anything against him) Australia would had lost any more matches or won much more. Can't say the same for Worrell's WIndies or Imran's Pak.

Is it at all possible that Worrell just had a much better team? A great opener and borderline ATG talent Kanhai middle in the middle order, the greatest all round cricketer the game's ever seen, a great fast bowler and spinner....?

Is it possible that Pakistan got better because the captain, the 2nd greatest all rounder ever was at his peak during said captaincy? Not to mention having their greatest ever batsman. If I recall correctly, Javed also did pretty well before the captaincy was restored to Mr. Khan.

The two greatest teams ever had less than great strategic captains, Richards, Waugh and Ponting weren't exactly lauded for their leadership or tactical skills, and the most of what Lloyd and Imran did was off the field.
I can even argue that Dennis Waight also had a massive hand in the teams sustained success. Worrell was a great leader of men, but without great men to lead, it doesn't go very far.

It's like head coach in the NFL or NBA, you can't win with a horrible one, but anything above par can get you there.... While a great coach with a bad team, is still a bad team. Did Phil win without Michael or Shaq / Kobe? Belichick without Brady?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Think Kapil is indeed a bit overrated, and if I had to choose either for my India team ot would have to be be Ashwin.

Not that tough a decision actually.

I think that's a bad choice really. Ashwin imo is the better player, but if you can only have one in your Indian team, it's Dev very comfortably.

 

[Coronis]

Did Phil win without Michael or Shaq / Kobe? Belichick without Brady?

Shockingly no, a great coach didn’t win without a superstar on their team.

 

[h_hurricane]

Think Kapil is indeed a bit overrated, and if I had to choose either for my India team ot would have to be be Ashwin.

Not that tough a decision actually.

He was a lot better in the cordon than Ashwin. That is the tie breaker for me.

 

[Majestic]

From an Indian point of view, quality in fast bowling is lesser than quality in spin bowling. So, the likely choice would be Kapil Dev.

SEN team would love to pick Ashwin in their team.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Shockingly no, a great coach didn’t win without a superstar on their team.

Hence, Mournho >>>> Guardiola

 

[Coronis]

Hence, Mournho >>>> Guardiola

I don’t know what any of those three words mean

 

[kyear2]

I think that's a bad choice really. Ashwin imo is the better player, but if you can only have one in your Indian team, it's Dev very comfortably.

How? One is a match winning phenomenon at home and a far superior bowler there.

I hope this isn't just because one is an all rounder and one isn't

 

[kyear2]

Shockingly no, a great coach didn’t win without a superstar on their team.

Hence my point. In many instances the teams make the coach, and in some of these instances, the captains.

Tremendously over played aspect of the game.

 

[capt_Luffy]

How? One is a match winning phenomenon at home and a far superior bowler there.

I hope this isn't just because one is an all rounder and one isn't

Nope. Even only as a bowler, Kapil is a shoo in in Indian ATG team. Ashwin is probably a shoo in now, but there is still a case to make a team without him. None for Kapil really.

 

[kyear2]

Hence, Mournho >>>> Guardiola

Non facetiously, don't know who either of those gentlemen are. Have heard the names mind you, but unaware of context and couldn't pick them out of a line up.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Hence my point. In many instances the teams make the coach, and in some of these instances, the captains.

Tremendously over played aspect of the game.

José Mourinho with Porto (saying this as it's in the most recent memory).....

My favourite is though Obdulio Varela and the 1950 Uruguayan team.

 

[Coronis]

Hence my point. In many instances the teams make the coach, and in some of these instances, the captains.

Tremendously over played aspect of the game.

lol. Its easy to recognise a great captain or coach, its not all about being the best team in the world.

Are you really going to try to tell me that if Auerbach was coaching the Lakers with Baylor and West, and then later with Baylor, West and Chamberlain that it wouldn’t make a noticeable difference in the results in the 60’s?

 

[Xix2565]

I think that's a bad choice really. Ashwin imo is the better player, but if you can only have one in your Indian team, it's Dev very comfortably.

No way in hell. The intelligent thing to do is leave out Kumble and pick all the ARs. Kapil isn't getting in at Ashwin's expense and there's nothing any other Indian spinner has over Ashwin.

 

[capt_Luffy]

No way in hell. The intelligent thing to do is leave out Kumble and pick all the ARs. Kapil isn't getting in at Ashwin's expense and there's nothing any other Indian spinner has over Ashwin.

Really?? I don't think so. Kapil still is comfortably India's second best pacer and a great lower order batting asset.

In practicality, I would prefer:

Jadeja
Dev
Kumble
Shami
Bumrah

Over:

Jadeja
Ashwin
Shami
Bumrah
Kumble/Srinath/Zaheer/Nissar/Amar Singh

 

[kyear2]

Nope. Even only as a bowler, Kapil is a shoo in in Indian ATG team. Ashwin is probably a shoo in now, but there is still a case to make a team without him. None for Kapil really.

And absolutely not a contender for any other one among the top 6 squads. Oh, and so is Vaas for SL btw, similarly due to the lack of top tier alternatives.
As a bowler Kapil wasn't ATG status nor quality, where Ashwin has a decent case to be seen as such, especially at home.

 

[Xix2565]

Really?? I don't think so. Kapil still is comfortably India's second best pacer and a great lower order batting asset.

In practicality, I would prefer:

Jadeja
Dev
Kumble
Shami
Bumrah

Over:

Jadeja
Ashwin
Shami
Bumrah
Kumble/Srinath/Zaheer/Nissar/Amar Singh

Ashwin edges Kumble (handily IMO, but it's debatable) and is overall the better batter as well. He'd easily take the spot if you're worried about batting.

Jadeja
Kapil
Ashwin
Shami
Bumrah

This is the best lineup out of all of them smh. Got batting and bowling without any real compromise.

 

[capt_Luffy]

And absolutely not a contender for any other one among the top 6 squads. Oh, and so is Vaas for SL btw, similarly due to the lack of top tier alternatives.
As a bowler Kapil wasn't ATG status nor quality, where Ashwin has a decent case to be seen as such, especially at home.

I already said Ashwin is the better player..... But that doesn't change Kapil is more valuable in an ATG India team. Having Kumble replace Ashwin is a much less of a downgrade (even arguably an upgrade from pure bowling, though I don't share that sentiment) than having Srinath take over from Kapil.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ashwin edges Kumble and is overall the better batter as well. He'd easily take the spot if you're worried about batting.

Jadeja
Kapil
Ashwin
Shami
Bumrah

This is the best lineup out of all of them smh. Got batting and bowling without any real compromise.

...... The conversation was who was more important, given we can only take one.