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Is Ponting closer to Lara or Dravid?

Who is Ricky Ponting closer to in quality as a test batsman?

  • Total voters
    22
Red_Ink_Squid

Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
capt_Luffy said:
Why??? So we can't have this arbitrary discussions about players.....

But yeah, I think Ponting vs Dravid is very debatable and there isn't much substantial in between them. So can't personally justify them being in separate tiers.
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Defining "tier" would be useful imo.

For instance, it would create an excellent opportunity for people to argue about the definition of "tier".
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
Regarding Smith, does anyone know if Australia will persist with him as an opener?
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
a massive zebra said:
Gavaskar and Sangakkara should be a tier higher and Steve Smith a tier lower imo. Who is the Smith in your last tier, Graeme?
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Respectfully disagree on Smith and Sunny. Can't justify Sunny being being higher than Smith, or in that top tier overall tbh. Think Chappell was better than he was and Border at least on par, and neither of them are top tier guys.

Kumar being a bit higher I would listen to arguments for and can be swayed.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
centurymaker said:
We keep referring to Smith's India 17 tour but his 2023 tour was atrocious and he looked all at sea. If he ends up touring again in 2027, his India numbers could likely take another hit. What I am saying is that people judge players definitively too soon. Peak performances can mislead us into thinking the player is good enough to do 'ABCDEFGH' over their career but they might only be able to do 'ABCD' over the majority of their career. Only for few years they could do 'EFGH' as well.
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Fully understand where you're comg from. I never thought he was the best after Bradman and you can see posts where I reminded those who said he was, where Ponting was at that point in his career as well.

I do believe that he's of that special class though, the run machine who can also elevate it to that elite level and take over a session, match or series.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Chin Music said:
There are highly talented players (Dravid), there are exceptionally talented players (Ponting), then there are true geniuses (Lara).
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I can go with this.

Also saw something on ESPN, the greats, the ATGs, then the legends / Icons, but yours is better.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
kyear2 said:
Respectfully disagree on Smith and Sunny. Can't justify Sunny being being higher than Smith, or in that top tier overall tbh. Think Chappell was better than he was and Border at least on par, and neither of them are top tier guys.

Kumar being a bit higher I would listen to arguments for and can be swayed.
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Respectful question, what has Chappell done exactly to be considered better than Sunny; when he is away record is modest at its best.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
Why??? So we can't have this arbitrary discussions about players.....

But yeah, I think Ponting vs Dravid is very debatable and there isn't much substantial in between them. So can't personally justify them being in separate tiers.
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I just can't... honestly and hopefully cordially and respectfully.

We honestly don't think that of two players with more or less overlapping carers, with similar averages and conditions, that the guy who could destroy attacks and take over sessions and games where the other couldn't or didn't, was the better, more talented and impactful player?
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
kyear2 said:
I just can't... honestly and hopefully cordially and respectfully.

We honestly don't think that of two players with more or less overlapping carers, with similar averages and conditions, that the guy who could destroy attacks and take over sessions and games where the other couldn't or didn't, was the better, more talented and impactful player?
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Not if the other has more back to wall crisis knocks defining and winning series for his country.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
I honestly think putting Ponting in Lara's tier is more defensible than putting him and Dravid separately.
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But if you're putting him in Lara's tier, he is in a different tier to Dravid, so don't understand this.

To be clear there's no way that Dravid is in Lara's area code far less tier.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
kyear2 said:
But if you're putting him in Lara's tier, he is in a different tier to Dravid, so don't understand this.

To be clear there's no way that Dravid is in Lara's area code far less tier.
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I think the second part is a massive understatement and kinda overplays the gap in abilities of top tier batsmen, gonna ignore that.

On the next part, I find putting him in same tier as Lara MORE ADMISSIBLE ( Key word, more) than putting him and Dravid in separate tiers
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
Respectful question, what has Chappell done exactly to be considered better than Sunny; when he is away record is modest at its best.
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This will go nowhere because we will just disagree on this as well. But his performances in WSC were superb (and carries more weight for me than the tests that were being played concurrently), added to that, in tests he played in much more difficult hone conditions. Sunny's away record, and some of his best performances featured some below average opposition.

Also speaking to players from the era he was more consistent and more comfortable vs pace.

For me he's not in the same tier of the "Gods" as Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Richards, Lara, Smith, (Richards*) who not only had the stats, but the ability to and often turned a match on its head in a session, and in all conditions.

I think he was comparable to Border, who again had rougher home conditions and on average faced tougher completion.

This isn't a slight, at worst I rate him along with Chappell and Hammond and just ahead of Headley and Ponting.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
Not if the other has more back to wall crisis knocks defining and winning series for his country.
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And that has its place, but Ponting can do that as well. Ponting out the opposition on the back foot from ball one, and what ever game plan you had coming in, it didn't last long.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
kyear2 said:
And that has its place, but Ponting can do that as well. Ponting out the opposition on the back foot from ball one, and what ever game plan you had coming in, it didn't last long.
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Rarer, much rarer. Ponting might had filled opposition with fear, but Dravid filled the supporters with hope.
 
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