Was Mark Boucher lucky to play almost 150 tests for a top team like South Africa?

[Majestic]

He debuted in 1997 and his career went for 15 years where he ended with batting average of 30. He did kept to some of the greatest pacers that have played the game like Steyn, Donald, Pollock but he didn't kept to any world class spinner.

During his era, Adam Gilchrist came, revolutionized the game, the definition of keeper batsman and retired in 2007 as the greatest keeper batsman of all-time. Sangakkara also kept during early phase of his career and had good success. Both kept to ATG spinners, Warne and Murali.

Question here is how come South Africa couldn't find a better keeper batsman than a 30 averaging batsman who never had to deal with keeping vs quality spin or hardly many games on turners?

Quinton de kock averages 40 with bat, barely played 40 odd tests but has a significant case to be a keeper batsman in South African best XI since readmission. Even AB de Villiers kept for 20 tests, and averaged 58 with bat, although that was probably his peak phase in Tests but still it gives us an idea that South Africa could and should have replaced Boucher in 2000s at some point with probably a good 38-40 averaging keeper bat.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Probably. Nic Pothas should atleast definitely had played some Tests, but Boucher was well liked by selectors.

 

[Red]

Possibly a lot of intangible factors as well, his leadership, tactical nous, effect on team dynamics, etc etc

 

[reyrey]

Probably. Nic Pothas should atleast definitely had played some Tests, but Boucher was well liked by selectors.

And he was part of a clique that included Smith and Kallis as reported by some ex players.

To answer OPs question, yes I think he was lucky. He was fortune there were so many bowling allrounders around him that meant he could be picked without his batting shortcomings at 7 hurting the side.

 

[TheJediBrah]

SA just didn't have a better keeper during that time available. If he was from just about any other Test nation he'd have played a lot less.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He was fortune there were so many bowling allrounders around him that meant he could be picked without his batting shortcomings at 7 hurting the side.

Have to completely disagree with this though. Boucher's batting was his stronger suit, and it was perfectly fine for a keeper or a no. 7. His career average of 30 probably undersells him a bit. His keeping was fine but lacked more in comparison to his contemporaries than his batting did (Gilchrist aside).

 

[howitzer]

Yes imo. I'd have him no higher than fifth in my list of SA Test WK's, and there's a couple from the isolation era I rate higher than him too.

 

[reyrey]

Have to completely disagree with this though. Boucher's batting was his stronger suit, and it was perfectly fine for a keeper or a no. 7. His career average of 30 probably undersells him a bit. His keeping was fine but lacked more in comparison to his contemporaries than his batting did (Gilchrist aside).

He averaged 26 batting at 7. Just one solo century in that position from 124 innings. Stats aren't everything, but those numbers are pretty damning.

How many number 7s would last even 50 Tests with batting output like that?

Fortunate to have the likes of Pollock batting after him for so long.

 

[SteveNZ]

This wasn't exactly a killer era for wicket keeper batsmen though, right? Gilchrist aside? Our long time keeper through this era averaged 26 and played 78 Tests.

 

[TheJediBrah]

This wasn't exactly a killer era for wicket keeper batsmen though, right? Gilchrist aside? Our long time keeper through this era averaged 26 and played 78 Tests.

Boucher was probably the second best battng keeper for a lot of his career tbh.

Stewart didn't always play as keeper, India had no one until Dhoni, Sri Lanka the same until Sangakkara came along, NZ and WI were a bunch of spuds, Pakistan were moin and rashid back and forth who were nothing special, until Kamran who couldn't keep. Andy Flower was obviously a star bat but barely a keeper

 

[reyrey]

This wasn't exactly a killer era for wicket keeper batsmen though, right? Gilchrist aside? Our long time keeper through this era averaged 26 and played 78 Tests.

England had Stewart and Prior at either end of that era. There was Flower, Dhoni, Sanga, McCullum, Haddin.

Even someone like Ridley Jacobs was pretty comparable to Boucher in terms of batting output.

 

[TheJediBrah]

England had Stewart and Prior at either end of that era. There was Flower, Dhoni, Sanga, McCullum, Haddin.

Even someone like Ridley Jacobs was pretty comparable to Boucher in terms of batting output.

Yeah these guys mostly came along around the mid-00s. Before then it was slim pickings.

Those coming before like Stewart and Flower are questionable inclusions IMO

 

[reyrey]

Yeah these guys mostly came along around the mid-00s. Before then it was slim pickings.

Those coming before like Stewart and Flower are questionable inclusions IMO

I can understand Flower, but Stewart was a pretty efficient keeper by say the mid 90s. If Ghilchrist gets a pass then so should Stewart.

Moin Khan was a decent number 7 too.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I can understand Flower, but Stewart was a pretty efficient keeper by say the mid 90s. If Ghilchrist gets a pass then so should Stewart.

Moin Khan was a decent number 7 too.

Why wouldn't Gilchrist "get a pass" he was an excellent keeper and kept in 100% of the Tests he played

I agree Stewart is underrated but he played quite a lot as a specialist batsmen IIRC

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah, I'm talking 90s, not 00s with Prior, Dhoni, Sanga etc.

30 was a very decent average for a full time keeper in the 90s. Alec Stewart is an underrated player, but averaged 34 as a keeper as opposed to 46 without.

There was obviously a belief you were a gloveman first, batsman second, until someone showed this wasnt a zero sum game.

 

[Coronis]

Yeah, I'm talking 90s, not 00s with Prior, Dhoni, Sanga etc.

30 was a very decent average for a full time keeper in the 90s. Alec Stewart is an underrated player, but averaged 34 as a keeper as opposed to 46 without.

There was obviously a belief you were a gloveman first, batsman second, until someone showed this wasnt a zero sum game.

Yeah seems people forget how much Gilly changed the perception of WKs.

 

[Dendarii]

Boucher was probably the second best battng keeper for a lot of his career tbh.

Boucher's stats don't look so great when compared to other keepers who were around by the end of his career, but when he started out and for quite some time after that an average of 30 for a keeper would have been regarded as very good.

 

[Majestic]

Yeah, I'm talking 90s, not 00s with Prior, Dhoni, Sanga etc.

30 was a very decent average for a full time keeper in the 90s. Alec Stewart is an underrated player, but averaged 34 as a keeper as opposed to 46 without.

There was obviously a belief you were a gloveman first, batsman second, until someone showed this wasnt a zero sum game.

That's right but Boucher went on to play till 2012.

By 2005, trend of specialist keepers had gone with the likes of Prior, Dhoni, McCullum being picked. They weren't world beaters but they were picked because they were expected to keep well and contribute well with bat too.

SL tried Sangakkara as keeper batsman in first half of decade and then they went with Prasanna Jayawardene who was a keeper that could barely average 28.

Pakistan picked Kamran Akmal but it backfired to be honest. Dropped a lot of catches.

Perhaps, South Africa stayed with Mark Boucher because they weren't getting a Gilchrist or Sangakkara calibre batsman who can keep gloves. AB de Villiers certainly had the talent and ability with bat which came out post Boucher's retirement but then he was just superb on field itself. He probably didn't had the concentration and focus which a great keeper should have.

 

[reyrey]

Why wouldn't Gilchrist "get a pass" he was an excellent keeper and kept in 100% of the Tests he played

I agree Stewart is underrated but he played quite a lot as a specialist batsmen IIRC

He played a lot more Tests as a keeper than a specialist batsmen. Same with Flower. They are all-time 4th and 5th in most runs scored as keepers. Other than their keeping standards not being amongst the best in their country at the time of selection, I'm not sure why they'd be questionable inclusions.

 

[Red]

Gilchrist was a better keeper than Stewart or Flower, both of whom should’ve played as specialist batsmen.

England’s handling of Stewart’s career was a shambles. He should’ve played all his tests as an opening batsmen without the gloves, and he’d have been close to an all time great. He was such a good player of pace.