kyear2
International Coach
You keep saying agree to disagree, but keep bringing it up.
England doesn't have better options, Australia does.
England needs his aggressive batting, fast bowling Ang slip fielding. Needs.....
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
England doesn't have better options, Australia does.
England needs his aggressive batting, fast bowling Ang slip fielding. Needs.....
kyear2
International Coach
The India team I wasn't sure about, any critiques?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, because Compton, May, Pietersen, Gower etc are worse batsmen....... Man, it really makes very less sense to me. English batting is noticeably weaker than Aussie one, especially Gilchrist and Don makes a very tangible difference.
ataraxia
International Coach
Yeah especially when he's already sacrificed Sutcliffe for ideological reasons.
Coronis
International Coach
Yeah I don’t really get only picking certain AR’s for certain teams who already have great bowling just to reduce their batting depth.
How much will Botham bowl as a 4th/5th bowler? Not enough to justify his selection imo. You should also take into consideration Hammond is in the team, along with Root.
I also tend to lean the same way with Mushtaq, especially considering how great that Pakistani bowling attack is.
Obviously Kallis and Sobers are in their teams based on batting alone, so no issues there. (not even gonna go into only having Sobers as your sole spinner in this post…)
The only team where it really makes a lot of sense is India, considering the relative weakness of their bowling attack and spin friendly home conditions, Jadeja makes sense.
Miller also makes sense more than Botham or Mushtaq but its not the way I choose to go personally.
If I were to include Botham in an English XI personally I’d just have him alongside Trueman/Barnes/Spinner with a specialist at 6.
How much will Botham bowl as a 4th/5th bowler? Not enough to justify his selection imo. You should also take into consideration Hammond is in the team, along with Root.
I also tend to lean the same way with Mushtaq, especially considering how great that Pakistani bowling attack is.
Obviously Kallis and Sobers are in their teams based on batting alone, so no issues there. (not even gonna go into only having Sobers as your sole spinner in this post…)
The only team where it really makes a lot of sense is India, considering the relative weakness of their bowling attack and spin friendly home conditions, Jadeja makes sense.
Miller also makes sense more than Botham or Mushtaq but its not the way I choose to go personally.
If I were to include Botham in an English XI personally I’d just have him alongside Trueman/Barnes/Spinner with a specialist at 6.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Imo, Mushtaq actually makes sense for Pakistan. He was quite a good batsman, and as Pakistan has a tail of Imran and Wasim at 8 and 9, imo he works. Not to mention I would ideally prefer Pak to have two spinners.
Coronis
International Coach
Yeah you might be right, out of all the listed players Mushtaq is easily the one whose career I know the least about, I’d have to look into his career a bit more.
Also, without Mushtaq Pakistan pretty much have no 5th option whatsoever which is a serious issue neither Australia nor England would have. I do like your idea of having Botham bat 7 though. England's non-Trueman specialist quicks either feel underwhelming at ATG team level or had very short peaks.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Imo, England needs 5 bowlers more so for that reason. Botham as a specialist quick in an ATG 4 man attack doesn't seems right to me. I would personally have Botham at 6, Ames at 7 and Rhodes in place of Laker/Hedley (I think he is close to them as a bowler anyways).
Could compromise with Greig at 6?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Nah. Stokes better option. Greig's FC record as a batsman is very poor. Would prefer the two all-rounder attack personally, especially since I rate Rhodes quite high.
Rhodes always confuses me as he was several different players over the course of his career.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Kinda was Botham too tbh, but in a hugely different way.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
He actually did bowl more normally in his u19 days:
kyear2
International Coach
I've explained this before.
In a direct comparison with Border (or Ponting), I can't choose Miller, just too huge of a drop off. As a test batsman, he has 7 test hundreds in 55 tests, almost half came in one series, can't put him in over AB.
The Australian attack is also bullet proof, all 4 are capable of bowling extended spells and can even rotate around Warne with Simpson and Border there to assist. Not to add that Miller was mostly used, and at his best with the new ball, something he's not getting a sniff at here.
The difference with Botham is that with that batting lineup, his aggression is a necessity. Along with Root, they are the only ones who would be consistently able to push the run rate, plus he was a legitimate match winner with the willow.
As a slip, he's even more invaluable and he's needed at 2nd. No one else in the team is a viable option.
As a bowler. Trueman was less than ideal outside of England, Tyson was likely to breakdown, God in heaven knows what Barnes bowled and if it would be viable and Verity took less than 4 wickets a match. Yes his bowling is much more needed than Miller's.
In this completion England is a wild card and just trying to be viable, Australia is a contender who's likely facing the WI in the final, no need for the wild card.
Again, we don't have to agree.
kyear2
International Coach
Hutton is I'll suited for the no. 3 role.
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Hammond
Root
Barrington
Is incapable of winning matches, sorry that's not acceptable. They would be allowing bowlers to settle into their lines against them. Picture Sutcliffe and Hutton batting together, one is enough imho.
ataraxia
International Coach
I dunno, as a wildcard a batting lineup likely to force a draw against WI or Aus seems so much more valuable than hoping Botham has an on-day.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Almost no matches are actually drawn due to slow batting ffs, you're off your head on that one. More runs = betterer.
kyear2
International Coach
Mushy I wasn't positive about, but can you go into a match with literally only 4 bolwers?
Sobers as the main spinner is good enough. His wrist spin bowling option was more than useful and likely on par with his swing bowling as his most effective style, plus it keeps him fresher for his batting. Gibbs isn't better than Holding and Sobers can take wickets with and bowled marathon spells with his slower varieties.
As per your last paragraph, I don't lobe going into a match with only 2 viable legit pacers, the attack lacks venom, but understand your argument. I just don't love, sorry, even like the alternative batting options to Botham for the top order.